Roush Engine Failure – Pictures

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by N2VENOM

I purchased from Hillbank Motorsports, Irvine Ca. in 2007. I called this AM. They were helpful, but told me to call Roush. Again......

Rodknock, "I have a question. Did you or any mechanic do any maintenance on the engine during the 2+ years and 2,300 miles that you owned it? Or, was the engine completely buttoned up the entire time."

It was buttoned up the entire time.. Lesson learned. Thanks

Talk to Lance. He has always been very helpful to me, and has direct numbers for people at Roush.

Edit: I guess you have resolved the issue. Good luck.

[vector1]

you would think roush would have enough clout they could go back to harland sharp or whoever the valvetrain is made by and demand a replacement. nice work roush!

[Excaliber]

Why would they do that? Defective rocker arm shaft, when the bolt is loose and came off? Not the shaft's problem, it's the owner getting the shaft here...

[JBCOBRA]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

But I wonder if Keith Craft includes in his paperwork that he sends with that new Cammer engine a large disclaimer reading "WARNING: IF ANAL RETENTIVE, THEN THIS ENGINE's VALVETRAIN MUST BE CHECKED AND RE-TORQUED IF NECESSARY AFTER 1,000 MILES +/- OF USAGE. DOES NOT APPLY TO 428's."

Hi Rod!
That means you will only have to get them checked every 5 years

[Rick Parker]

Darren:

Broken shafts on FE valvetrain are most certainly not unheard of. As spring pressures and RPM rates escalate it's going to be a potential downfall of the design, that being said think this through. Two things come to mind in reading this and looking at your pictures.

1. Are you certain the stud is secure in the head, is there any chance the threads have pulled in the aluminum head allowing the shaft to flex a minor amout before fracturing? If not read on.......Roush buys the complete Rocker Arm sets from Harland Sharp and uses them to assemble their engines.

2. While Roush is only willing to "Sell you at cost" a replacement set, and since it doesn't appear there is any other visable damage to the valve train other than the fracture in the shaft. AND since Roush is really doing "Nothing" for you warranty wise, (??) why not go to Harland Sharps website and purchase the rocker "Shaft" for their price of $120.75 and save some cash?

Keep an eye on the rocker arms themselves, aluminum when used in a rocker arm work hardens with continuous heat cycles and can become brittle, it is used for this application because of light weight and ease of machining, but is not the best material for the application. While you are repairing this it might be prudent to check ALL the rocker arms individually and the bushings for any sign of galling or potential cracks at the bottom of the bushing bore or at the tips where the pin is secured, and inspect the other shaft as well. Occasionally the pin will begin to migrate in the tip and can cause REAL problems. Retorqe all fasteners and take the wife to dinner on the $$ you saved! It's not a difficult task.

Good luck


http://www.harlandsharp.com/components1.htm#Shafts

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

My perspective is that: a) an engine should be checked at least once after about the first 500-1,000 miles and probably every 1,000 +/- miles thereafter and b) these are high performance engines and a two year warranty is a two year warranty.

I always tell my customers to do the same. As much to check up on torques and workmanship, but to also to possibly prevent some damage from some part that is failing. I don't know the repair scenario, but I would have had all the hardware that is accessible( and that would include under the VC's) re-torqued.
Now as for Roush, because of no knowledge of what maintenance was performed in the time it was running, I can only say I have had excellent customer service from them. I would imagine they are stilll operating that way.

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Did you drop the oil pan and retorque the rods? What about the flywheel bolts? I submit that a properly installed valve train in our engines should never, ever require a retorque.

I am no PRO engine builder, but have probably built close to a 500 engines in the last 40 years and I would submit that anytime you have aluminum and steel interacting ...re-torquing is not only a good precaution, but makes an extreme amount of sense. If I have aluminum heads on an steel block, I re-check the head bolt torque after an appropriate amount of miles. The Ford crate engine I installed in the Coupe had an instruction sheet that even detailed that. I think many time blown head gaskets, water leaks and other "failures" could be minimized by regular re-torquing. An all steel/iron engine doesn't have the expansion variables that are involved in an aluminum/iron engine. Aluminum expansion varies depending on what quality aluminum is used as well.

[Marvin]

All I know is if I need to check and re-torque all the fastners on my 428 fe, solid lifter flat tappet engine after every 1000 mi it will have a new owner because I would rather drive it than wrench on it.

It is a five year old engine with 7500 mi big solid cam 10.6 c.r. and has had the valves adjusted once [last year] .
No trouble with this maint. but will check with builder to see if needs something more, my plan was to think about freshning at about ten years and 20000 mi?

[patrickt]

Woodz428 -- I hear you.... But, how many of today's cars have aluminum heads and how many of the owner's manuals require a valve train retorque? Now, of course, no builder is going to go on record saying "even though that bolt is right in front of you, there is absolutely no reason to retorque it so you shouldn't even bother." It would be nice if some of the recognized builders would chime in on their view of the need for hydraulic lifter guys to pull their valve covers and retorque their valve train. Personally, I don't think that need is there unless the valve train was not installed properly to begin with.

[elmariachi]

Today's production cars are not hand built, they are mass produced and prior to that, they are scientifically engineered. So to compare the design and assembly tolerances of a 427 stroker to a Benz 5.5L is not fair. In my opinion (and I ain't no engine builder) anyone who buys a performance engine for these cars, from Roush or anyone else, should err on the side of caution and check things like head and valve train torque.

And your last sentence is most important: With these engines being hand-built, the chance for assembly error is astronomically higher vs an assembly line engine. Why not insure yourself by checking?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

With these engines being hand-built, the chance for assembly error is astronomically higher vs an assembly line engine. Why not insure yourself by checking?

So you agree with me then that, but for an error in workmanship or materials, a retorque of the valve train is unwarranted?

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

So you agree with me then that, but for an error in workmanship or materials, a retorque of the valve train is unwarranted?

Provided that the components being used are specifically compatible, yes.

And to the guy Marvin above who said that he has only adjusted his solid lifter valve lash once in 7500 miles, but suggests that he would expect to freshen his engine at 20k miles, I submit this:

I have adjusted my lifters twice in 5300 miles and if I had to freshen my 427 FE up at 20k miles, I'd give it to the Salvation Army.

[patrickt]

So you agree with me then that, but for an error in workmanship or materials, a retorque of the valve train is unwarranted?

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Provided that the components being used are specifically compatible, yes.

OK, well then, I'll shut up... for now.

[N2VENOM]

Does anyone have the re- torquing specs for a Shelby block? After having my initial problems with the rocker shaft, I plan to check every fastener within reason.

[Excaliber]

It is prudent to check the valve clearance on a new engine, that is, 1,000 to 2,000 miles. If any valves actually need adjusting, repeat at another 1,000 miles! There is virtually no reason valve adjustment should change significantly, a couple to a few thousands at most. If the valve adjustment is changing dramatically, something is really wrong.

Checking the torque on a rocker shaft, while certainly a good idea with a new engine, should not have to be done on any kind of regular basis, alloy or iron. Like the valve adjustment, it's either going to hold, or not. If not, you gotta a serious problem.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Like the valve adjustment, it's either going to hold, or not. If not, you gotta a serious problem.

Once again, Ernie, you have synthesized the issue down to but a few syllables of unadulterated truth.

[RodKnock]

You say "unwarranted", I say "precautionary". You say tomAYto, I say tomAHto.

For someone who posts threads on literally every superfluous part of his ERA, you would think he would take a few minutes every 1, 2 maybe 3 years and check his valvetrain for abbey-normal wear.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For someone who posts threads on literally every superfluous part of his ERA, you would think he would take a few minutes every 1, 2 maybe 3 years and check his valvetrain for abbey-normal wear.

I have solid lifters (so does ElM., DCDoug, ERA Chas, and others) so my valve covers are off and I'm wrenching on the valve train regularly. What I was trying to hone in on was for the benefit of the hydraulic lifter crowd that are asking themselves "aw man, do I realy have to pull my valve covers and retorque my valve train?" And I submit the answer is still "No." Unless of course, there was poor workmanship or a defect in materials -- and then that would hold true for any part on your car.

[RodKnock]

I think in theory, a hydraulic roller valvetrain should not need any adjustment, BUT, in real life, an FE is not a modern engine and requires precautionary supervision from time to time. Kinda like looking at your Trigo KO's occasionally.

[Excaliber]

I wouldn't base this type of maintenance (valve stuff) on time, I'd base it on mileage. Now for oil changing, some will need to base that on time, not mileage. Low miles, "over time" generally means the oil will be contaminated.

One of the good things about mechanical lifters is, it keeps you in touch with your motor. You have a REASON to be in there looking at stuff and as a consequence just might find a problem before it becomes a problem.