Lock Washers Are Useless!

[Rick Parker]

The industry for which this fastener is best utilized is for constructing wooden gates! Anything more complex, including starter bolts is best left to a combination of Half Height and Full Height Sheer Stop Nuts, 12 Point hardened nuts with appropriate strength studs, Jet Nuts, AN Washers and #262 Red Locktite. (Blue does not exist in car fabrication) unless you like retightening fasteners for exercise.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

The industry for which this fastener is best utilized is for constructing wooden gates! Anything more complex, including starter bolts...

Well Rick, to be absolutely truthful, reaching down there and tightening them up once or twice a year is easier than replacing them. The only wrench I can get in to the top bolt is a thin-walled 1/2" stubby box wrench -- I can probably get 15 ft/lbs with it, if that, maybe.... Here's what ARP sells for the full size FE three bolt starter and what I should have in there:

[Jerry Clayton]

Patrick

looking at your pics---why don't you use a lock nut on your starter bolts???? oh, thats right---you don't even have any nuts for them----

And a pointer that you should write on the garage wall---when tightening the starter bolts on an FE engine---use a long extension for a 3/8 drive with a 9/16 socket and tighten from the right FRONT side of the block(forward of the motor mount)you can easily put 80 ft pounds torque if you want--

and don't use the arp bolts--there are specific bolts for the starter

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

...and don't use the arp bolts--there are specific bolts for the starter

Jerry, that pic is of these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AR...3502/?rtype=10 Should they not be used?

[Jerry Clayton]

nope
need 10 characters for a post so here

[patrickt]

You know what I have seen, and what would be nice, is a flexible ratchet extension that bends just like a hose. I don't know if they can handle much torque though. Here's a pic of one I just googled.

[Jerry Clayton]

they aren't any good for anything that needs much more than you can do with screw driver amount of torque--there are some wobble joints that are very good

In your pic it doesn't look like you have any nuts on the starter bolts on your scattershield---if not---

when and if you have it out of the car, weld some metal lock nuts to it so the bolts can screw directly in just like a staok bell housing---and you need the locating ring and the shanked starter bolts to insure the starter is lined up in the correct relationship with the flywheel

[patrickt]

Your saying weld a nut on to the starter flange and then come in from the bellhousing side with the bolt?

[Jerry Clayton]

no --weld on back side of scattershield and install the bolts from the front like you have-

If you can't get an extension pass the motor mount to the top bolt--THEY (Snap-on, Mac,etc) make what's known as a starter wrench and they are a big c curve which will wrap around starter so you can get leverage on the bolts, but the socket and extension forward works better


by the way--that's a nice clear pic

looks like you could use a longer bolt in the lower corner of the block

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

no --weld on back side of scattershield and install the bolts from the front like you have-

If you can't get an extension pass the motor mount to the top bolt--THEY (Snap-on, Mac,etc) make what's known as a starter wrench and they are a big c curve which will wrap around starter so you can get leverage on the bolts, but the socket and extension forward works better


by the way--that's a nice clear pic

OK, I got it. And "yes" I read about the starter wrench in one of my old manuals from the early 70's. It looked like what we called an exhaust manifold wrench. That would do it because I can get the stubby on in a flash, I just can't get much "oomph" in to it because of the contortionist
position and the shortness of the wrench.

[Jerry Clayton]

you can probably find one on e bay or at a pawn shop much $$$$$ than new from Snap, MAc,etc

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

you can probably find one on e bay or at a pawn shop much $$$$$ than new from Snap, MAc,etc

That's a good idea. She's about ready to take her long winter's nap and go in to her bag with fresh desiccant until spring arrives.

[Jerry Clayton]

Have a good holiday

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's a good idea. She's about ready to take her long winter's nap and go in to her bag with fresh desiccant until spring arrives.

So that means no more threads, posts, tutorials, science projects, quizzes, outdated revelations and photos for four months--right?

Wish you could take a long winter's nap in a bag like "her".

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

So that means no more threads, posts, tutorials, science projects, quizzes, outdated revelations and photos for four months--right?

Hardly. The fact that I can't wrench on her results in my mind wandering. And you know what they say about idle hands....

[blykins]

Well since you offered KC a premium, how about you pay me $5k and you can come hang with me for a week. I got a stroked LS motor ready to go together...you'd really go nuts on that one....torque angle gauges, metric fasteners, mixed rod bearing sizes.....oh the fun....

What would you do if the inner main bolt spec was 15 lb-ft + 80°?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Well since you offered KC a premium, how about you pay me $5k and you can come hang with me for a week. I got a stroked LS motor ready to go together...you'd really go nuts on that one....torque angle gauges, metric fasteners, mixed rod bearing sizes.....oh the fun....

Yes, but the idea of working with you in your underwear kind of gives me the creeps.

Originally Posted by blykins

What would you do if the inner main bolt spec was 15 lb-ft + 80°?

Uhhh, hire somebody that knew what they were doing?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yes, but the idea of working with you in your underwear kind of gives me the creeps.

Not any creepier than you writing a 10 page thread on changing a harmonic balancer...

Google "torque angle gauge".....it's something you'd probably have fun with.

You like 60's/70's music, right?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Google "torque angle gauge".....it's something you'd probably have fun with.

Well I did, and here it is. Never used one; never seen one, in fact. And they're not very expensive.

[blykins]

No, they're not.

The LS main fasteners (except for the cross bolts) use a lb-ft + degree spec for loading. Not your normal way of torquing main bolts....and it takes forever.