Wondering what I have. Engine block, never used.

[Keithc8]

The block is a new old stock 427 side oiler block that was sold over the counter by Ford Parts dealers back in the day. Nothing special other than it is a new block that is a side oiler and has provisions for a hydraulic camshaft which they started doing after 68 on these blocks. There were quite a few around for years and some are still out there.
The new blocks being made by Genesis and Pond Motorsports have hurt the price of these blocks because now you can get a new ebtter block from either of them that will go a bigger bore and take more power. Not to say that this block would not work fine for someone up to about 700HP. I sold some of these blocks for 5000.00 10 years ago but now with the new blocks out it has killed their value. I just purchased one for 2950.00 just like it brand new and all. I told some of these old timers that they should have sold a oot of that old stuff 10 to 15 years ago before they came out with all the new better blocks and heads. Now that you can build brand new FE engines it has hurt the market on these parts. You will find a few die hard guys that have to have the Ford logo on it but not many any more. You better pressure and sonic test any of these old FE block because some did have problems.

Good luck, Keith

[FIA-ERA]

Thanks for chiming in here Keith! You must have got the one I was watching on ebay? Yes, these are my views too. I have a great top end I would like to use but with the Genesis offerings out there it makes a NOS one a risk. These new blocks can take a beating and still go strong. The old blocks, well not bad, are thinner wall castings and have their own shares of problems. Not to bad mouth the old stuff but how many do you see for sale with sleeves, re welded bottom ends, and possible cracks that you don't know about. Heck I really wanted that one you had not too long ago that was NOS but had the three cracks. Was it a deal, yep, but the headaches were a mile long and in the end it wasn't off from what a Genesis block costs. What does an "unfinished" Genesis Side oiler (cast iron) block really cost? I see them advertised but they already have the cylinders honed and some machine work done. I would consider one but just want the starting point right from Genesis (no offense). Thanks for your advice!! Matt

[Keithc8]

Well here the problem with the Genesis deal, they have ruined their reputation by not telling the truth to many times. Have blocks and will ship then call back and they do not have blocks. Get them and they have leaks or some other problems that if they will help witha problem it takes for ever. Just ask about them on the forum here and you will see. Had a chance to have a good deal and they have screwed it up every way possible. I use the Pond Motorsports blocks now and least do not get lied to. Robert is honest and works with me on any problem we may have with the block.
In the end I have put a ton of hours in trying to help Genesis at first and got tired of their lies so Robert decided to do a block and we have worked with him. To answer your question you will spend about 3800.00 on a new block plus the shipping. There is machine work to be done after you get them and make sure you have the right stuff to check them out with. We have a very extensive process that we put all of the cast iron and aluminum blocks through and we do things to them machine wise that others do not. This is what you get when you buy a machined block from us. When you buy the bare block you get the figure out all that needs to be done.
I will use original stock block, center oiler and side oilers but will check them out very well before we use them. In the end I have to stand behind what I build so I do not want any block problems.

[FIA-ERA]

Thanks Keith! Yes I know of the Genesis probs but haven't read up on the Pond Cast Iron blocks too much. Geez, they sure are heavy!! I'd have to lose some weight to help the car a little. I have a really nice Tunnel Port set up that's just itching to go into a friends 67 Shelby BUT the 428 in the car is pretty strong right now. I've had a chance or two to get a original 427 but somethings always come up. It would be great to get one of these on this thread but like you said you have to get them checked out first! I would love for you to do it all but it's not my car and were a little too far apart. You've got a great set up and industry respect! That's tough and you've earned it! I need to do some more homework! Regards, Matt

[Keithc8]

You are never to far away, we ship all over the world. Just let us know if we can ever help with anything. Can always do you a block and ship to you when you are ready.

Good luck, Keith

[tauro]

Originally Posted by tkb289

The shop in Sacramento is FE Specialties and the owner is Tom Lucas.

http://www.fespecialties.com/

Tom has built a number of motors for CC members over the years and is in the process of building a motor for me.

Give Tom a call, I am sure he could provide some good information.

Appreciate the info, I will contact tmorow.

[Excaliber]

KC made some good points about the "value" issue. I'm fairly hard core myself, more than most, less than some, about how cool it is to have genuine parts. A side oiler being a HUGE part of that picture. I prefer a later model ribbed (for more pleasure?) type block because of it's dual personality, hydro or solid cam.

So, would I buy a genuine from back in the day block or a modern Dove or Pond block? Tough call, either way, their both going to need machine work prep. The original type block is lighter weight and I'm sure it's strong enough for the type of build and rpm use I would do. Less than 600 horse for instance, maybe hydro or maybe flat tappet cam.

In the end I think it would come down to price. I'd be hesitant to pay extra for an original block. Assuming all choices were the same price, the modern block's would be favored by myself. In any case an alloy block would NOT be a consideration in my case, I'll stick with iron thanks.

So, an original block at a good price would pique my interest. At the same price as modern, hmmm, I don't know, maybe not.

Best bet, if I was selling, would be to look for a buyer where originality is high on their list of variables. Thats a fairly limited market these days and getting smaller...

[tauro]

That's surprising to me. I couldn't think of having anything but original, for instance years from now when I am done building a cobra the only block that's going in is the original. Body is one thing, but the heart of the car to me is most important. This isn't a must sell, more of a make me want to sell it. If that doesnt happen, well bagged and boxed she goes for down the road.

[Excaliber]

I am very tickled to have an original side oiler in mine. Not to please anyone else, but because I feel good about it!

...just a reality check on the current market.

[Keithc8]

Well just remember the original blocks were cast in 65 and 66 and this makes them even harder the find. Most have been exploded or repaired with sleeves and welded. So if you must have original then that must be a early date coded 427 side oiler block and that wil cost you if you find a ggod one and it will cost you a lot of misery if you do not find an original one. The block we speak of here is not an original but a part sold over the counter in about 70 to 73 more than likely to fix the broke stuff.
If the car is not real you are wasting money trying to find a 65 to 66 block and engine parts to make it seem that way. Just way to many better parts available these days with the right part numbers on them. The Pond replacement block even has a C5AE-H casting number on it with a 65 date code, does that make it more correct than the over the counter block with the 72 date code. When looking at it in the car only an expert that knows and has worked on the blocks will know the difference but anyone that knows how to check a date code will know that you have a Ford service block.
I am just happy that we have these choices because I all but quite working on the FE engines 10 years ago other than high end race stuff because there was nothing but junk out there. It was just a pain in the ass to bild them with this left over junk and have problems. I can remember building about 5 FE engines a year in the late 90s and now we build about 70 a year along with a lot of short blocks and heads.
Like I said I just purchased a NOS 427 block and will build a real nice engine out of it for someone I am sure and will buy more if they come along at a similiar price.

Good luck to all, Keith Craft

[Keithc8]

Me I like the all aluminum FE engine that weights about the same as a cast iron block aluminum headed small block. The cars sure handle nice with that extra 150lbs of the front and mine make pretty good HP and can be rebuilt many times over. They are the best bang for the buck when it comes to an FE engine right now, who every thought we would have the new parts to build an all aluminum FE engine over 527C.I. if we wanted.
Now we can build an all aluminum 427SOHC engne that is better and stronger than the original. Why would someone pay 30,000.00 for an original SOHC engine they know nothing about when they can do a complete new aluminum 482C.I. to 527C.I. version for in the 38,000.00 range that makes about 200HP more. Got to have that 40 year old technology so that they make less power I guess. To each there own, that is why build each engine custom for each customer.

Happy Motoring, Keith

[FIA-ERA]

Tauro, I was looking to buy a NOS 427 block off of ebay that Keith Craft had started on. The block was NOS, Keith vats the block, starts checking it out and it had three stress cracks! One of the cracks was right across the two cylinder walls on the deck side! A NOS block, how does this happen? I don't know but it does so listen to his advice. It is very tough to purchase something like this from a far and not know what I truly have. Like others have said, the originals had they're own issues and a lot were discarded back then.

I understand the "originality" issue but unless you have a CSX Cobra from the sixties, it would be nice but it doesn't had substantial value to the car. Do you have all the "other" date coded parts that match the same year, etc? Example: a 65 "R" code HIGH Rise engine complete. A complet Holman/ Moody Nascar Tunnel Port engine from Richard Petty's stock car, etc. The engine in a car plays a role to some degree but in the end it doesn't add much to the value of the car, unless it's special or has significant historical value. It"s really the one item you spend all most of your money on and hardly ever get it back.

I think calling a local expert and having them check them out is a good idea, I would feel better knowing what I'm selling and would sleep better too. I would think the NOS blocks these days (68 to 73 service blocks) are really only worth $1500 to $2500. Anything above that, it's just better insurance to start with a new Pond or Genesis block. It just depends on what you have and to feel good about the sale too. Now, if you could prove it came from Holman and Moody or it was in the stack of "original" Shelby frames he had in a warehouse from the sixties, etc that would have more value.

In the end, I think "most" people want what's right for their application. If they have a 65/66/67 then they find that certain block. If not, they settle for the next best thing, then the next and so on. As Keith has stated, if the new offers hadn't come along, then ALL of us would have to accept the NOS price what ever it might be. I'd be interested but to a point because I'm realistic, then it would just make sense to go the new block route. PM me with your info when you find out. My project doesn't have a "NOS" stigma. It just wants a good starting point. Happy Holidays out there! Matt

[tauro]

Originally Posted by tkb289

The shop in Sacramento is FE Specialties and the owner is Tom Lucas.

http://www.fespecialties.com/

Tom has built a number of motors for CC members over the years and is in the process of building a motor for me.

Give Tom a call, I am sure he could provide some good information.

So I did a sonic test on the motor and it came out great. On the website there should be a page that Tom is building for the sale of this motor. So again Ill take offers! my ebay id for reference as to selling history is TauroMinos. Thanks!

[FIA-ERA]

So I did a sonic test on the motor and it came out great. On the website there should be a page that Tom is building for the sale of this motor. So again Ill take offers! my ebay id for reference as to selling history is TauroMinos. Thanks!
Reply With Quote

Still a little confused? Is this listed on ebay? Didn't find anything for sale under your ID listing. I've sent you a bunch of PM's regarding this block. I'm going Friday to look at 5 427 side oilers here locally. I just need a block but if I have to buy one of these complete 427's, then that's what I have to do. Send me a PM regarding this block (price and shipping to 30127) and I'll see what I can do. Regards, Matt

[tauro]

Sorry ebay ID was just for reference to my online selling record since I dont have a rating on this website. I did post this in the for sale section on here as well, you should see it under the most recent posting, click for sale at the top of the page here. Shipping will be pricey, probably like $300.

[Double Venom]

Wondering why "BBQ" didn't get any comments on his new- packaged FORD blocks??? Just curious. Nobody believes him? They aren't worth the investment? I don't know, just seems funny that a guy posts OEM 427 crated motors and nothing is said?

What am I missing?

By the way, what he claims is so true it gives me goosebumps!

[rustyBob]

I too have talked extensively to "BBQ" about what he has and if i had the cash i would be down at his place picking up some of those engines for myself....he says he has a "CAMMER" and other related parts...do i believe him...yeah...nobody has proven him wrong yet on what he says is there....and i'm sure he would be willing to send pics. of all of it if you ask...he seems to be a real nice guy and very willing to talk abiout his stuff.

[Double Venom]

I was hoping the "Cammer" information wouldn't come out! It's still in the Factory packing!

[RodKnock]

I think it's a combination of everything that has been mentioned.

Unless there's some rockin' good deal, I'd rather have a new aluminum block. The economy has something to do with it and also believability as well. No information or pics have been posted. Most folks are hundreds and thousands of miles away and can't make the trip to check it out. Thus, even if you have the money to buy, and you want an NOS block or whatever, you have to send money to someone you don't know and/or trust that you will get what you've paid for in return.

No disrespect to BBQ, or anyone else selling items on the Internet, but I think the apprehension applies to most of the private sellers and some vendors that are out there. Just reading the FE Forum, you'll see that are quite a few sellers of FE parts that aren't holding up their end of the bargain.

Cammer stuff always interests me, pics and info would be great, but someone will have to send A LOT of money to BBQ, or anyone else selling parts or cars via the Internet, then hope.

My $0.02.

[BBQCYCLEWERKES]

The cammer motors are not new. all 4 are used orig motors. The new in crate blocks are the 427 side oilers. Warranty blocks. The side oiler block is slightly different then the cammer block. The cammer block has a oil return hole being fed from the head back down to the pan. The side oiler blocks can be easily modified and have the hole drilled in the block for the oil return. In fact I had my machine shop do this to 2 addt'l blocks. gave him 1 of the orig blocks to use to set up the milling machine. He charged me $200 each to modify the blocks. my orig cammer motors have CA5 #'s on 2 and the other 2 appear to be modified 427 side oiler warranty blocks. Sorting out and packaging into motor sets now. Only found 3 427 HR heads. I'm going to keep a set so I'll be selling 1 HR head, 1 set or MR heads and 1 set of LR heads. I'm building a collection of Ford Muscle Car motors to go along with my Mopar collection. 1 orig date coded 406 tripower motor, 1 427 C5A sideoiler with HR heads and 4 bbl manifold, 1 date coded correct 428 SCJ with 2x4 manifold and correct carbs and 1 cammer motor 4 barrel set up. Also have stack fuel injection set up for a cammer and 427 LR. Many more sets of 390 HP heads, used blocks, ford alum manifolds, lakewood bell housings, etc. I'll post all what I have to sell once all sorted out and decide what I'll be buying 1st. Also told to look at all the 289 blocks as I think we have some C4, C5 and C6 blocks. I know we have some ford 289/302 alum 4 barrel manifolds also. Also found some sets of the rare short and long tube exhaust manifolds which were used on these motor/car packages. Way to much to sort thru in our spare time.