more sb100 questions

[sfm8s191]

hey all did i get hoodwinked by the state of cail or did i make out?
went to dmv to register replica cobra with new mexico title.title states a repl make cobra model ,year 1965.......
went to get a sp100 they said i dont quaify as the car is titled in another state...so they transfered it as a 1965 not needing smog...not a spcn....weird the girl at dmv told me this is better...no referee...just vin verify and done .....i dont know what to say...what do yall think???

[rodneym]

Come on!!!!On a Friday night!!!
There are recent threads on this.
'Thread' carefully. You should still do SB-100.

[rodneym]

And one more thing...the DMV clerk may or may not be familiar with SB-100 but they probably know enough to take the easy way out. When you go to the DMV, some people are handed a form and the folks leave, others go to a different line but when it's SB-100, the manual comes out, the manager walks up and you're stuck for a while.

[roadrod2000]

when you get your new title go back down and go through the amnesty program.

[sfm8s191]

The clerk know about sb100 cause she said ill check to see if any are available,she has to call sacramento...im thinking sheesh i hope their not all gone already...and she comes back saying the car is ineligible due to it already constructed and not in kit form ??????yup friday alright....lol
but what is the amensty program?

[Paul F]

A clerk at the DMV is not an authority. Your word that 'someone at the DMV said ...' won't hold up when the state comes after you a year or 10 from now, when they are combing through records looking for violations.

The only person being hoodwinked may be you and it may be very costly in the future. As has been said, get it fixed while you can.

Search for posts from Morgester for the amnesty program.

[twobjshelbys]

Even though the clerk may not be an expert, he/she is an agent acting on behalf of the state. But you'd better check their homework. It would be good to know under what circumstances a title can be transferred like this and to have them point you to the relevant portion of the Motor Vehicle Code (having that info would settle a lot of arguments here.)

As can be certified elsewhere, there is a special place in Hell for those who don't get a SB100.

PS. Good Luck.

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Even though the clerk may not be an expert, he/she is an agent acting on behalf of the state. ....)

As can be certified elsewhere, there is a special place in Hell for those who don't get a SB100.

PS. Good Luck.

Yes, that is true. But a title is not documentation that you did the right thing. If you can't back up that title with proof that you followed all the rules when registering the car, it's your fault, not the DMV. Be sure you have it right.

You may be ok now, but one day someone in the bowels of the the State government may have too much time on their hands and they may see the benefits from a green California and they may have a boss that sees the benefits of a green California and they both have an agenda and they both want to show their boss how brilliant they are in making California even greener. You may be the one they decide is going to help them make California greener.

Be safe, be sure, drive happy.

[roadrod2000]

Originally Posted by sfm8s191

The clerk know about sb100 cause she said ill check to see if any are available,she has to call sacramento...im thinking sheesh i hope their not all gone already...and she comes back saying the car is ineligible due to it already constructed and not in kit form ??????yup friday alright....lol
but what is the amensty program?

The SB100 numbers are avaliable for previously registered cars, Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1 the clerk was incorrect about the "kit form" that you mentioned, but since you were registering from another state I'm not sure how that would apply.
Here is some information from the DMV website that answers some but not all the questions.

V C Section 580 Specially Constructed Vehicle
Specially Constructed Vehicle
580. A "specially constructed vehicle" is a vehicle which is built for private use, not for resale, and is not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer. A specially constructed vehicle may be built from (1) a kit; (2) new or used, or a combination of new and used, parts; or (3) a vehicle reported for dismantling, as required by Section 5500 or 11520, which, when reconstructed, does not resemble the original make of the vehicle dismantled. A specially constructed vehicle is not a vehicle which has been repaired or restored to its original design by replacing parts

Specially Constructed Vehicles Emission Control

What is the Specially Constructed Vehicle Emission Control Program?

Existing law requires most 1976 and newer model year vehicles to pass an emissions control inspection (smog check) prior to original registration, transfer of ownership, and every second annual renewal. Since Specially Constructed Vehicles (SPCNS) are homemade and do not have a manufacturer-assigned model year, they must be taken to a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee Station for the original inspection. Upon completion of the inspection, the referee will affix a tamper-resistant label to the vehicle and issue a certificate that establishes the model-year for future inspection purposes.

Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1, the first 500 program applicants in each calendar year may choose whether the inspection is based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. If the engine or the vehicle does not sufficiently resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the model-year.

After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.

Previously registered vehicles may be included as one of the first 500 applicants in a calendar year and apply for a different model-year determination.

What is an SPCNS Certificate of Sequence?

An SPCNS Certificate of Sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose emission control inspection based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. The certificate is issued by DMV Headquarters and will be mailed 7-10 working days after the application is accepted by your local DMV. The certificate must be presented to the BAR Referee Station at the time of inspection.

Per statute, only 500 certificates can be issued in a calendar year. Once the yearly allotment has been issued, applicants must wait until the following year to apply for a certificate.

SPCNS Certificates of Sequence cannot be transferred to a different vehicle or reissued in someone else's name. The seller of a vehicle must provide the buyer with the SPCNS Certificate of Sequence along with the bill of sale and any additional registration documents. In addition, fees deposited in one year cannot be held over for the next year's allocation of certificates.
Registration Requirements for Home Made Specially Constructed or Kit Vehicles
A "home-made, specially constructed, or kit vehicle" is a vehicle that is built for private use, not for resale, and is not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer. These vehicles may be built from a kit, new or used parts, a combination of new and used parts, or a vehicle reported for dismantling (junked) that, when reconstructed, does not resemble the original make of the vehicle that was dismantled.

A specially constructed vehicle (SPCNS) does not include a vehicle that has been repaired or restored to its original design by replacing parts or a vehicle modified from its original design.

Example: A Volkswagen "Beetle" with modified fenders, engine compartment lid, and front end, but still recognizable as a Volkswagen is not considered a specially constructed vehicle.

NOTE: The registration requirements for kit commercial vehicles are the same as for specially constructed vehicles.

The Registration Requirements are:
• A completed Application for Title or Registration (REG 343).
• A vehicle verification done by the California Highway Patrol (CHP). You must start your application process with the DMV prior to contacting the CHP for a vehicle verification. DMV verifies trailers with an unladen weight of 6,000 pounds or less.
• A completed Statement of Construction (REG 5036).
• Proof of ownership, such as invoices, receipts, manufacturers’ certificates of origin, bills of sale, or junk receipts for the major component parts (engine, frame, transmission, and body).

NOTE: A motor vehicle bond is required when proof of ownership cannot be obtained for parts valued a $5,000 or more.
• Official brake and light adjustment certificates. When an official brake and light station that inspects specific vehicles such as motorcycles and large commercial vehicles is not located within a reasonable distance, DMV will accept a Statement of Facts (REG 256) from a repair shop attesting that the brakes and lights are in proper working order. Brake and light certificates are not required for off-highway vehicles or trailers weighing less than 3,000 pounds gross vehicle weight.
• A weight certificate for commercial vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less.
• An emission control inspection (smog check) by a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee Station. Click here for information on SPCNS Certificates of Sequence . To make an appointment at a BAR Referee Station, call 1-800-622-7733.
• All fees due.
• Visit your local DMV to begin the application process, make an Appointment(s) for faster service.

Vehicle Registration Amnesty Program

Vehicle Code Section 4750.1 was amended to add a vehicle registration amnesty program for qualified owners of specially constructed vehicles (SPCNS), for which the value was under-reported and/or the vehicle make was incorrectly reported. The amnesty program provides waiver from prosecution, in return for the immediate reporting and payment of previously under-reported vehicle value and/or vehicle make. This program is effective January 1, 2010, through December 31, 2010.
You will need:
• The Certificate of Title or an Application for Duplicate Title (REG 277) unless there is a lienholder/legal owner.
• Complete a Statement of Facts (REG 256) stating the correct vehicle value, date the vehicle was purchased/acquired, that incorrect information was provided when originally registering the vehicle, and that you are eligible to participate in the vehicle registration amnesty program.
• You must contact the Bureau of Automotive Repair at 800-622-7733 to determine the smog emissions requirements.
• V C Section 4750.1 Specially Constructed Vehicles Assignment of Model Year
• Specially Constructed Vehicles: Assignment of Model-Year
• 4750.1. (a) If the department receives an application for registration of a specially constructed passenger vehicle or pickup truck after it has registered 500 specially constructed vehicles during that calendar year pursuant to Section 44017.4 of the Health and Safety Code, and the vehicle has not been previously registered, the vehicle shall be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted, for purposes of determining emissions inspection requirements for the vehicle.
• (b) (1) If the department receives an application for registration of a specially constructed passenger vehicle or pickup truck that has been previously registered after it has registered 500 specially constructed vehicles during that calendar year pursuant to Section 44017.4 of the Health and Safety Code, and the application requests a model-year determination different from the model-year assigned in the previous registration, the application for registration shall be denied and the vehicle owner is subject to the emission control and inspection requirements applicable to the model-year assigned in the previous registration.
• (2) For a vehicle participating in the amnesty program in effect from ( ) July 1, 2011, to June 30, 2012, pursuant to Section 9565, the model-year of the previous registration shall be the calendar year of the year in which the vehicle owner applied for amnesty. However, a denial of an application for registration issued pursuant to this paragraph does not preclude the vehicle owner from applying for a different model-year determination and application for registration under Section 44017.4 of the Health and Safety Code in a subsequent calendar year.
• (c) (1) The Bureau of Automotive Repair may charge the vehicle owner who applies to participate in the amnesty program a fee for each referee station inspection conducted pursuant to Section 9565. The fee shall be one hundred sixty dollars ($160) and shall be collected by the referee station performing the inspection.
• (2) A contract to perform referee services may authorize direct compensation to the referee contractor from the inspection fees collected pursuant to paragraph (1). The referee contractor shall deposit the inspection fee separate trust account that the referee contractor shall account for and manage in accordance with generally accepted accounting standards and principles. Where the department conducts the inspections pursuant to Section 9565, the inspection fees collected by the department shall be deposited into the Vehicle Inspection and Repair Fund.
• Added Sec. 2, Ch. 693, Stats. 2002. Effective January 1, 2003.
Amended Sec. 2, Ch. 420, Stats. 2008. Effective January 1, 2009.
Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 235, Stats. 2009. Effective January 1, 2010.
Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 388, Stats. 2010. Effective January 1, 2011.
The 2010 amendment added the italicized material, and at the point(s) indicated, deleted the following “January 1, 2010, until December 31, 2010”

[Ron61]

Roadrod2000,

They have did away with the part of SB-100 that allows you to use the year of the engine to register by. It is now only the year the vehicle most closely resembles. That I got from our DMVs and the two Smog Referees in this area. And AB-1578 was added to cover just this type of thing.

SB-1578 Legislative Counsel's Digest: Third chapter:

This bill would eliminate the requirement that the registration provided to the first 500 vehicles by the DMV be an INITIAL REGISTRATION, for that vehicle, and would specify that the 500 vehicle limit does not apply to the renewal of registration of a vehicle previously registered pursuant to those provisions.

This bill was added to cover cars bought out of state as California won't recognize or accept other states registrations on these vehicles. The amnesty bill was mostly for people that had registered cars here before SB-100 was law to be able to come in and apply for one of the SB-100 numbers without being penalized. It uses the same 500 numbers as SB-100 does but is for previously registered cars from other states and not newly built ones like SB-100 is for. It requires some different forms, but basically works the same way as what the state wants to know is the cost of the car and how much they can tax it.

Ron

[roadrod2000]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Roadrod2000,

They have did away with the part of SB-100 that allows you to use the year of the engine to register by. It is now only the year the vehicle most closely resembles. That I got from our DMVs and the two Smog Referees in this area. And AB-1578 was added to cover just this type of thing.

SB-1578 Legislative Counsel's Digest: Third chapter:

This bill would eliminate the requirement that the registration provided to the first 500 vehicles by the DMV be an INITIAL REGISTRATION, for that vehicle, and would specify that the 500 vehicle limit does not apply to the renewal of registration of a vehicle previously registered pursuant to those provisions.

This bill was added to cover cars bought out of state as California won't recognize or accept other states registrations on these vehicles. The amnesty bill was mostly for people that had registered cars here before SB-100 was law to be able to come in and apply for one of the SB-100 numbers without being penalized. It uses the same 500 numbers as SB-100 does but is for previously registered cars from other states and not newly built ones like SB-100 is for. It requires some different forms, but basically works the same way as what the state wants to know is the cost of the car and how much they can tax it.

Ron

Not suprised that more and different information is out there. I pulled what I posted off the DMV website so some of it could be out of date.
One thing I do find interesting is that if the goal is to value the cars higher for tax reasons then why not just revalue all of the cars registered as 65 Cobras at the value of an original 65 Cobra? That would be sure to get everyones attention.

[sfm8s191]

thanks for all the great info....things change ...as i have a sb100 # 35 in the year it was introduced 2003? or so ....which was form mass... no problem other than nobody know what sb100 was it took a while. now this car from new mexico.. so it looks like they closed in the loophole for outof state cars and sb100 for newly titled vehicles.....
never regestered before , am i understanding that????

[roadrod2000]

Originally Posted by sfm8s191

thanks for all the great info....things change ...as i have a sb100 # 35 in the year it was introduced 2003? or so ....which was form mass... no problem other than nobody know what sb100 was it took a while. now this car from new mexico.. so it looks like they closed in the loophole for outof state cars and sb100 for newly titled vehicles.....
never regestered before , am i understanding that????

I'm not sure how the out of state cars fit in here. there is specific wording about previously registered vehicles but it does'nt specify California or any other state. Did your New Mexico registration specify the car as a replica? and did the CA DMV carry that wording to the new registration and title?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Come on!!!!On a Friday night!!!
There are recent threads on this.
'Thread' carefully. You should still do SB-100.

As Rodney said, there are two threads just in the past week on this subject and would help answer your questions. Just use the search function.

Search for Morgester.

[sfm8s191]

yup the new mexico stated 1965 repl cobra just like that....and the dmv transferred it just like that 1965 yr repl make body type or model is RD

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by sfm8s191

yup the new mexico stated 1965 repl cobra just like that....and the dmv transferred it just like that 1965 yr repl make body type or model is RD

Either someone has been drinking or part of this thread is missing.

The DMV will go ahead and enter whatever you hand them 80% of the time without questioning it. In the end, you're legally responsible regardless of how the DMV rep handles the transfer.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by roadrod2000

Not suprised that more and different information is out there. I pulled what I posted off the DMV website so some of it could be out of date.
One thing I do find interesting is that if the goal is to value the cars higher for tax reasons then why not just revalue all of the cars registered as 65 Cobras at the value of an original 65 Cobra? That would be sure to get everyones attention.

Hey, I am not even sure that what they have told me is fact as every DMV and smog referee I have talked to in this Northern area seem to have different ideas about what is allowed and what isn't. When SB-100 first came into law, the DMV site was much better set up and you could even check and find out how many numbers were left if any. The reason I was given that the engine year isn't allowed any more is that to many people were using service blocks that didn't have a date stamp and claiming they were the first year of that engine. I do not know if this is true as I have trouble believing anything I hear from these people. So far I think the best DMVs to really find out anything from are in the Sacramento and Bay area so far as Northern Calif. goes. Now you have to jump all over the DMV site to find out all of the different things that you may need to know about a SPCNS. I don't know why they can't put it back the way it originally was with any changes that have been made in it and have it in one section. I do know that Redding is one of the most annoying DMVs I have ever been in and that goes for everything, not just Special Construction. I even got a letter once asking me if I would use the Redding office instead of others as so many people were going to other places to do their registrations and stuff that Redding was becoming a non profit joke. I try to keep up with all the latest stuff on registering these cars, but it is almost impossible given the different stories from each DMV and smog referee. It is like dealing with the IRS.


Ron

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by sfm8s191

yup the new mexico stated 1965 repl cobra just like that....and the dmv transferred it just like that 1965 yr repl make body type or model is RD

Then you're good to go,

Until you're not!

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by sfm8s191
yup the new mexico stated 1965 repl cobra just like that....and the dmv transferred it just like that 1965 yr repl make body type or model is RD

Two former members of the club that I know had the same thing happen. They moved to Calif., brought their Cobras and registered them using the other states title. Everything was great for about 8 months on one of them and about 2 months for the other and then they received letters from the DMV revoking the titles. They both showed me the letters and one of them then went through the SB-100/1578 process and got his legally registered. The other just sold his out of state as he didn't want to mess with it. So don't be to upset if you should receive such a letter. Hopefully you won't but in this state you never know. At our big April Car Show a year or so ago they had two state people going around checking all replicas and running the license plates to see if they had the SB-100 or not. Anyway I wish you the best of luck.

Ron

[bingo2]

I posted this in another SB100 related thread:

There is a little known division within the DMV in California, the Involuntary Transfer Division. Guess what they do. They review all suspicious registrations and title transfers occurring in the State of California. About sixty days after the registration has taken place they receive the microfilm records (old technology) from the field offices and a report from their database containing the “flagged” records. Among those flagged records is anything relating to the transfer or registration, including the reported purchase price, of a Cobra like vehicle or kit car. There is an internal DMV memo that specifically addresses the Cobra registration and transfer process. As often happens in large companies and State agencies, not all field office employees are up to speed on the policies and procedures and you may get lucky and get your transfer and registration past the field office employee but, there is a very good chance the ITD will, at some point in the future, come knocking on your door with the bad news: your registration is invalid and your title will be recalled.

Will you get caught, maybe, maybe not? I didn’t want to be the one that tests the “good faith and credit” or the “bone fide purchaser” positions in court, although I still think they have merit.

The SB 100 process is relatively painless and as Got The Bug (Doug) suggested, why not do it.