Just Curious

[marcocsx3121]

Let me start by pointing out that I do not have a dog in this fight. I don't own a Cobra replica, and at this point, no longer contemplate buying one. I'm content to live with the slightly faded memories of a guy in his early 30s tooling around the roads in northern New Jersey in CSX 3121, fueled by Sunoco 260 and a sense of immortality that seems to evaporate as we enter middle age and beyond.

My question: how does SPF find buyers for their "rollers" at $50k plus when there seems to be a plethora of nice, clean, low mileage cars with good power trains being offered in the low to mid forties?

As I said, just curious.

[redmt]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

Let me start by pointing out that I do not have a dog in this fight. I don't own a Cobra replica, and at this point, no longer contemplate buying one. I'm content to live with the slightly faded memories of a guy in his early 30s tooling around the roads in northern New Jersey in CSX 3121, fueled by Sunoco 260 and a sense of immortality that seems to evaporate as we enter middle age and beyond.

My question: how does SPF find buyers for their "rollers" at $50k plus when there seems to be a plethora of nice, clean, low mileage cars with good power trains being offered in the low to mid forties?

As I said, just curious.

Just as a W A G (wild ass guess), I think there are still a lot of people with disposable income that are willing to pay for the prestige of owning a high end name. Only speculation on my behalf. I see people paying big $$ for a lot of things and can only walk away scratching my head.

What I don't understand is the cars that resemble a Cobra but have morphed into something bigger, wider, longer with various power plants. How do these enter the Cobra market?

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

My question: how does SPF find buyers for their "rollers" at $50k plus when there seems to be a plethora of nice, clean, low mileage cars with good power trains being offered in the low to mid forties?

As I said, just curious.

By having them base priced at $41,900, not "50K plus"!! And including items that are extra cost or not available on some other brand....top, side cutains, tonneau, inner fender liners, heater/defroster, etc.

Absolutly there are some good buys on nice cars for the same money or even less. Some people want "new" and some want exactly what they want.

I guess I don't understand the question, are you wondering why anyone buys a Superformance or are you amazed at the cars that can be bought elsewhere?

Could a question be psoed "why do people buy poorly built/engineered "Cobras" and think they have gotten a bargain? (And this IS NOT a swipe at any particular brand, I have said before the best "Cobra" is the one you can afford and makes you happy)

[marcocsx3121]

willing to pay for the prestige of owning a high end name

I hear you, but the cars being offered in the 40s are often also SPF; same, high end name.

[redmt]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

I hear you, but the cars being offered in the 40s are often also SPF; same, high end name.

Check these out. Asking and getting are two different things. These guys are a consignment dealer so I guess it doesn't matter how soon or if they sell them. This is one of those head scratching situations I was talking about.

http://www.specialtysales.com/invent...&Submit=Search

[Tommy]

Marco,
At the risk of inadvertently hurting someone's feelings, I'll take a shot at answering your question. I'll begin by noting something I've seen more frequently on this forum as Superformance owners have become more numerous here. It feels like there are more Cobra owners now who don't know much about how cars operate as machinery. I'm not saying there weren't people like that in the past; it's just that it feels like there are more of them now. ... In the past, novices who wanted to buy a high quality, professionally built Cobra replica had to rely on advice from people in the know about either what used car to buy or which brand and builder to choose. I suspect that made buying a Cobra replica an uncomfortable experiece for many novices. The emergence of the Superformance brand as a consistently high quality car needing only a drive train and wheels made it attractive to many novices. A would-be Cobra owner didn't have to know much of anything about cars, nor have a friend who did in order to feel comfortable about buying a Superformance. I think that may be why Superformance can sell cars when many used cars of comparable quality are languishing on the market. ... It's sort of the same reason why people will pay $500 for a new computer when a similar used one can be bought for $200. If the buyer doesn't trust his judgement in accessing the used item, he will often pay a higher price for the comfort of buying a new one.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by redmt

Check these out. Asking and getting are two different things. These guys are a consignment dealer so I guess it doesn't matter how soon or if they sell them. This is one of those head scratching situations I was talking about.

http://www.specialtysales.com/invent...&Submit=Search

FWIW: As it relates to the original question and poster > Not all Cobra builds are created equal; even when comparing different SPFs. I clicked on your link, and noticed a car for sale there a good friend use to own. When you look at the ad, it reads $59K, and knowing what's in the car, including a FE aluminum $25,000 Shelby motor, completely revised suspension, replaced high end shocks/springs, all SPF gauges replaced with high-end gauges, different fuel system, fuel cell tank, special order paint, and seeing all the receipts from the former owner and the time it took to assemble the drivetrain and sort out the car, blah-blah-blah, the car ended up costing the original owner more than $85K to build. So, to the right buyer who wants a Shelby motor in their SPF and a lot of nice extras, that used car might be worth say 55-59k to someone. Whereas, maybe the more factory standard SPF car right next to it for sale in a common color theme might have an off-the-shelf 392 Ford Motorsport Crate motor in it and no extras or upgrades with an asking price of $50K, I'd say there would be a big gap between these two scenarios but sometimes they get priced closer to each other more than would seem reasonable to people who build them every day and know what all the "extras and upgrades" truly cost to do.

Unless you've actually built one from start to finish, or worst case had someone else build it for you, and had to pay for all the upgraded parts, labor time, money & energy spent to finish a car and sort it out - each car has to be looked at carefully to know what it might be worth from one person to the next.

And for others, no matter what, they don't want to buy someone else's car, build, or colors, and just want to be able to experience a new "turnkey minus" car for themselves, just how they want it to look or be equipped in the drivetrain area. If I've learned one thing about Cobras, just about everyone likes something a bit different than the next person, and that's what makes the variety so fun in all the different makes out there too. There are a few nice cars down at Specialty sales though. If you know what to look for used, there are some great deals out there right now for sure.

[marcocsx3121]

Obviously, I'm not communicating very well. My comparison roller vs. completed cars is SPF to SPF. There are two in the current for sale section of this forum for about the same price as a new roller.

BTW, I do recognize that SPF is a quality piece. When McMichael Motorsports, an SPF franchise, was located across the road from Road Atlanta, (all of 12 miles from my old lake house), it was a fairly regular hangout. Rob Ginn would periodically force me to take one or another of his creations out for a run.

[Don]

New vs pre-owned, getting exactly what is wanted as a total package considering the expense as far as engine, color, stripe, etc., etc. The close reasonable match to desires might also be too far away to easily/personally inspect and transport, another expense.

SPF as well as others continue to refine their products.

Probably some of the same reasons new Mustangs, Challengers, etc are bought new, rather than pre-owned. I bought my Z06 new, but got exactly what I wanted.

[JWilly]

When I bought my new SPF there were some of very reasonably priced, low mileage SPF's on club cobra. None were exactly what I wanted in terms of color, engine, etc. and this was one purchase I did not want to second guess myself on. Also, all of the "used" cobra'a for sale were long distances from where I live. I didn't want the hassle of dealing with that especially when I had an SPF dealer nearby. I know people who only buy used cars and I know others who only buy new cars. To each their own.

[Bill Bess]

I think Tommy hit the nail on the head. It's all about the buyer, how much money they can afford, their respective expertise, do they want to build it themselves, getting a deal on a car with tons of upgrades, and do they want a quality name brand with it built their way.

It's all fun...do it your way. Bill

[mdross1]

No sense in getting into the hobby if your heart is not in it,no matter the cost.When you really do become addicted cost seems to not matter quite so much.Building your own helps in the money dept just takes a lot of dedication.

[Dwight]

IMHO

A Superformance is a know quality. Factory build. Motor and trannie installed by someone but everything else is factory.

So many of the Cobra kits were build by amateurs, like my self. I started my kit in 2000, took 28 months to complete and several years to fix some of the problems.

I have seen a lot of well build kits but I have also seen a lot of unsafe kits out there on the road.

It's smart to buy the SPF if your not a full time car mechanic.

IMHO

Dwight

[427supr]

I own a 1995 Superformance Cobra, #046. It was part of the first shipment of SPF's from South Africa. I bought it used in 1998 for $32,500. It had the basic SVO 351 engine. I have upgraded to a Dart 427w last summer. Its been a great car for me in the 13 years of ownership. I do agree that you can get a better deal, and "bang for buck". buying a pre-owned Superformance. It seems there are alot of them out there on e-bay and different Cobra sites.

[bobcowan]

I hink that's an excellent question. If you're looking at a turn key minus car for $42K, and fully built, registered car with 5,000 miles on clock for for $42K, why choose the unfinished car?

1. Some people want something really unique under the hood, a custom built, all aluminum, stroker Pond motor. Or a twin turbo Dart small block. Then you would probably want to start fresh.

But I'v seen a lot of Superformance roadsters with a standard crate motor right out of the Ford catalog.

2. People often buy a kit car so they can say, "I built that." Granted, many of them simply mated a crate engine and trans to a crate car over the course of the week end. But that's more than the guy who guys down to the Ford dealer and buys a new Shelby. And maybe that's the lmit of his experiance, abilities, or desires. Not every can or wants to buiuld a car from individual components

Sure, the Superformance builder has not done nearly as much work as I have, and doesn't know nearly as much about his car as I do about mine. But, the scratch builder says the same thing about me. It's all a matter of perspective.

[DanEC]

I don't think this is so mysterious - just routine Auto business economics. Ford is still selling a lot of brand new Mustang GTs for $40,000 although I just bought my 2008 Mustang GT with 21,000 miles for less than half that. If people weren't willing to pay a premium to buy new ones then at some point I wouldn't be able to get a good deal on a slightly used one.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I don't think this is so mysterious - just routine Auto business economics. Ford is still selling a lot of brand new Mustang GTs for $40,000 although I just bought my 2008 Mustang GT with 21,000 miles for less than half that. If people weren't willing to pay a premium to buy new ones then at some point I wouldn't be able to get a good deal on a slightly used one.

From a pure cost and availability standpoint, IMO comparing high-volume production vehicles to limited production hand made replicas are two completely different scenarios. For example, if someone wanted to find a solid black ERA big block with an original 427 in it, and all the right bits, they might have to pay the price to get it vs. easily finding a used 2008 Black Ford GT Mustangs on cars.com or new at many lots across the US. I bet you'd find 100x the Mustangs available as compared to the solid Black ERA 427 SC Cobra, don't ya think? i.e. routine auto business economics (supply vs. demand).

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by decooney

From a pure cost and availability standpoint, IMO comparing high-volume production vehicles to limited production hand made replicas are two completely different scenarios. For example, if someone wanted to find a solid black ERA big block with an original 427 in it, and all the right bits, they might have to pay the price to get it vs. easily finding a used 2008 Black Ford GT Mustangs on cars.com or new at many lots across the US. I bet you'd find 100x the Mustangs available as compared to the solid Black ERA 427 SC Cobra, don't ya think? i.e. routine auto business economics (supply vs. demand).

High volume - low volume - still the same principal. By the time I got down to looking at specific color Mustangs, with specific color leather interior, with Navigation and automatic (5 speeds much more common but wife said no) and low miles in nice shape - I was basically looking at two cars in the State using Craigs list and Auto Trader.com. Many times more folks out there looking for new/used Mustang GTs, Corvettes, what-have-you, than 427 Cobra cars.

[tin-man]

I guess each to their own, some people will buy by brand and want to put their own stamp on what they purchase. Kinda difficult to do when buying a previously owned Cobra. tin-man

[mdross1]

Back when I first realized it was time to get a Cobra,spent some serious time looking for the right car.Rode in a few,which helped me zero in just how I wanted my car to look,sound and drive.Bottom line was to build one from the ground up,the CMC car fit the bill to a T.It was a major headache at first,but finally got into the groove and the final result could not be happier.Could never have found or even afforded to buy a car like mine all done,just because of the performance level and having it exactly the way I wanted.In the end it was well worth every minute spent.