Oil discussion

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by Scufty

".........Most of these engines we are running are 40 years old and they ran just fine with the oil that was available at that time? ............"

they did, but it seems like sticking one's head in the sand to ignore the friction reduction that synthetic oil provides. Less friction, less wear.

Z.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Scufty

K ..I have a question for all of you? Have you ever heard of a "oil related breakdown" and I don't mean "I lost a lobe during my Cam break in and I think it was the oil I was using" (because I don't believe that either ) I mean a TRUE oil related breakdown? I just have to think that everyone has this oil thing blown way out of proportion? If you use a good oil and change it often enough I don't see any reason to run anything but? Most of these engines we are running are 40 years old and they ran just fine with the oil that was available at that time? OIL RELATED BREAKDOWN? enlighten me please? thanks

I'm in general agreement with your overall statement. With this small exception-Most of us are stressing the engines with power output slightly beyond the 40+ year ago motors.

Maybe the GT40s, large and small were the maximum stress for those engines. For the Cobras -Sebring, Riverside, Nassau or Daytona. Endurance racing, even at a lower state of tune will do that. But at that-Shell, Kendall or Castrol dino oil was the product of the time-no synthetics in those days. Don't know if any DNFs were due to 'oil breakdown'.

What I notice now and find amusing is the number of guys who say 'I need the best' like RP, Penn, Amsoil or a host of other big cost oils. They use it because 'it costs less than my $25K motor' and there's a perception that the car is so 'special' that it requires said expensive stuff. Not because they buzz to 8500 or WOT for hours on end.

They have no problem buying the highest costs and using it in copious amounts-11 quarts belong in a dry-sump tank-not in a pan. But that adds to the bad-ass factor and 'seriousness' of the car. They're using it because they can afford it, have read enough testing and heard enough opinions about what 'the best' is but not because they stress it enough to find out.

IMO any of today's quality oils, selected for temperature weight, changed annually and filtered correctly will lead to years of hard use without noticeable wear (provided clearances were correctly machined and assembled). I'm not talking the solid lifter debate which has been yacked to death. Broken in correctly with a zinc additive, on outer springs only and the cam will live happily on a quality oil-irrespective of zinc content. Ask how I know.

[scaffold]

I had a '93 Taurus SHO with the Yamaha v-6 and it started using oil at about 80,000 miles. Later I had a '99 Taurus SHO with the Yahama v-8 and it never used a drop of oil up to when I sold it at 143,000 miles. I've also been told by a friend whose career has been in the oil industry that there are only 3 oils that are truly synthetic--Mobil, Amsoil and Redline. All others are supposed to derivatives of pertroleum products. also have a '04 Viper (78,000 miles) with synthetic as well as a Hyundai Azera (93,000 miles) both of which have always had synthetic and never used a drop of oil.
They've made a believer out of me

[scaffold]

I had a '93 Taurus SHO with the Yamaha v-6 that used regular Pennzoil and it started using oil at about 80,000 miles. Later I had a '99 Taurus SHO with the Yahama v-8 and used synthetic and it never used a drop of oil up to when I sold it at 143,000 miles. I've also been told by a friend whose career has been in the oil industry that there are only 3 oils that are truly synthetic--Mobil, Amsoil and Redline. All others are supposed to be derivatives of pertroleum products. Also have a '04 Viper (78,000 miles) as well as a Hyundai Azera (93,000 miles) both of which have always had synthetic and never used a drop of oil.
They've made a believer out of me

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by scaffold

I had a '93 Taurus SHO with the Yamaha v-6 and it started using oil at about 80,000 miles. Later I had a '99 Taurus SHO with the Yahama v-8 and it never used a drop of oil up to when I sold it at 143,000 miles. I've also been told by a friend whose career has been in the oil industry that there are only 3 oils that are truly synthetic--Mobil, Amsoil and Redline. All others are supposed to derivatives of pertroleum products. also have a '04 Viper (78,000 miles) with synthetic as well as a Hyundai Azera (93,000 miles) both of which have always had synthetic and never used a drop of oil.
They've made a believer out of me

I use 15/50 Mobil 1 in my race car cause I turn it 7,000rpms and run an oil temp from 230 to 260 while racing depending on the outside air temp....Synthetic oils are good for 300 degrees whereas dino oil is good for about 240 degrees...........

With that said, everything else I own gets 15/40 Shell Rotella T....that would be my 05 F-250 diesel, my wifes Taurus, daughters Altima,my 65 Fastback, and my Toyota company car as well as my lawn mower and garden tiller.........This company car only has 110,000 miles as of today, last one had 431,614 miles on when it was totaled in a wreck, the 2 cars before that one each had 250,000 miles on them without any problems, in fact, none of these vehicles ever so much as had a valve cover off since new!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dino oil works and has been working for more than 100 years now...........

David

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by Scufty

K ..I have a question for all of you? Have you ever heard of a "oil related breakdown" and I don't mean

I have. 4 years ago I spun a rod bearing at the track. Oil pressure was good, and I use a good pan. I was using Dino oil then. Would the same thing have happened with a true synthetic? Maybe, IDK.

Originally Posted by Scufty

Most of these engines we are running are 40 years old and they ran just fine with the oil that was available at that time? OIL RELATED BREAKDOWN? enlighten me please? thanks

I think for most Cobra owners, this is true. The vast majority of Cobras only get a few thousand street miles per year, and the oil temp probably never gets above 220*.

For those engines, any good dino oil changed once a year will keep that engine alive for 20 years.

Originally Posted by scaffold

I've also been told by a friend whose career has been in the oil industry that there are only 3 oils that are truly synthetic--Mobil, Amsoil and Redline. All others are supposed to derivatives of pertroleum products.

AFAIK, there are 4 true synthetics on the market: Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, and another brand I can never remember. Most Mobile 1 is not on the list. They used to be, but in recent years have started with a dino base stock, and not PAO. I have heard a rumor that their 15W50 Motorcycle oil is the only one that sarts with PAO, but I can't confirm it one way or another.

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

I use 15/50 Mobil 1 in my race car cause I turn it 7,000rpms and run an oil temp from 230 to 260 while racing depending on the outside air temp....Synthetic oils are good for 300 degrees whereas dino oil is good for about 240 degrees...........

With that said, everything else I own gets 15/40 Shell Rotella T....David

I set my rev limiter at 6,700 rpm's, just a little less than yours. Oil temps do tend to climb to about the same level. I use RP 10W40 in the summer, and 5W30 when it's cold.

I take the engine apart every 2 years for rings, bearing, gaskets, etc. After 2 years of hard use in all kinds of conditions, the engine looks great. No measurable bearing wear with plastigauge, ring gaps are still where they should be, everything looks clean and shiny. I'll coninue to use RP in this engine.

My diesel truck still gets dino oil, doing fine. Air cooled motorcycle gets synthetic, because it is hard on oil.


Also, my engine takes 11qts: 7 in the pan, 1 in the filter, 2 in the accusump, and one in the cooler. I'd love to have a dry sump. If I had a track only car and a bigger budget, I would have a dry sump. But, I don't, so I don't.

[WarrenG]

I just bought two gallons of Rotella T for my 289 and the label on the back states that it meets the requirements of API CJ-4 and CI-4 plus. I use Rotella T at the recommendation of the engine builder. I check back with him every year to make sure that he hasn't changed his recommedation and the answer has always been the same, keep using the Rotella T.

[Kzof]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

On a turbo car, synthetic can make a huge difference due to the coking point being a lot higher. The bearings int he turbo won't fry when you shut down the engine.

As for the Mobil 1 not being true synthetic, he's full of it. It is true synthetic oil just like the Amsoil. He can feel it being faster? LOL...sure.

Agree 100%. a long time ago i had a Dodge Daytona Shelby Z. Bone stock. Used every day for my daily commute. Apx 100 miles a day. The car had regular oil changes with Mob 1. Some time north of 150,000 it blew a head gasket. When it was opened up my mechanic was impressed how spotless it was inside. Also if anybody out there dosnt remember those little Chryslers were on a regular basis puking turbos around 60,000 miles. When I got rid of it, it was north of 180,000 miles on the original turbo and never burned any oil or smoked. This was enough for me. Mob 1 always.

[Don]

Scufty.......is this what you are referring to ?

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/.../oil-breakdown

http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom2.shtml

[Scufty]

Originally Posted by Don

Scufty.......is this what you are referring to ?

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/.../oil-breakdown

http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom2.shtml

Im well aware that oil breaks down ....what I am asking is if anyone has heard of a true "Oil related breakdown"
like "well.....your oil wasn't in very good shape after the 1000 miles of driving you have done. we tested it and I don't think that you would have spun that bearing if you were using XXXbrand cause it is way better oil"

Thats all...I do understand the logistics of oil breakdown...just dont know that it is as important as people make it out to be ?
Just being the devils advocate when it comes to all this hype about oil!???

[jmimac351]

www.bobistheoilguy.com

Mobil 1 15/50 supposedly has ZDDP added back into it to address camshaft issues. We run it in our Chump Car miata for racing.

Pennzoil Ultra is fairly new and claims to do a great job cleaning the engine. I run the 5/30 in the Expedition - not 20 weight.

Pick the right viscosity and keep it clean. This topic can lead to OCD.