Drag race - Kirkham 65 side-oiler vs Ferrari 458 italia

[tommygold]

Ken, Thank you. If you can infer anything about the Kirkham's makeup from the outside, that's great (though I expect unlikely). I expect to get more info from him today about the engine. I'd ask him to meet up with Club members, but I don't want him getting tips!! -Tom

[jolsen42]

Originally Posted by David Janowic

He will back out of the bet guaranteed. He will find an excuse, I drag race all the time, and i've never seen a cobra break 12 seconds and i've seen a lot of them wreck. They are very unforgiving cars, can you give me a date when this race will be? I will go there and bring cash and bet u he backs out of the bet.

Here's a Factory Five with a 289 that runs 10"s all day long.
John O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-whV_8NhNXk

[Stentor]

While the owner of the Kirkham might not know how to drive his car, the car should certainly be capable of running below 11.5 seconds in the quarter mile.

Here's an example of a naturally aspirated, small-block-powered SPF that has spanked plenty of exotics at the drag strip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmDd14eITU0

[Trevor Legate]

Having had a small taste of throwing a Cobra at the horizon I can state from personal experience that tyres play a huge part in such an issue. I'd recommend the gentleman concerned to do some serious homework based on both performance and safety (mostly safety) Not certain I'd opt for slicks.

So he succeeded in writing off a 430...and now he wants to indulge in a challenge match in a car of which he has virtually no experience? Why do I get a bad feeling about this? Nice to know that both parties can afford to lose a considerable chunk of $$$$ - that gives me a different kind of feeling

[decooney]

Originally Posted by tommygold

I'm the OP..... "He's had the Kirkham for a year and has put about 20 miles on it"

This to me is a key statement. If your buddy truly only has about 20 miles on his Cobra, or if you know he has not had much experience driving other high torque Cobras in the past, this will make it an interesting race. And, if he has not learned to launch a Cobra, or how to heat up the tires to launch it properly, I'm thinking he better have a whole lot of horsepower to make up for mistakes at the start and catch you somewhere down the track; if he knows how to use it. Can you film this with 3+ cameras at Launch, from behind, and at the end of the track finish line?

My vote goes to the person who puts in the best practice runs beforehand and does not break or degrade their drivetrain too much before the race.

[tommygold]

Thank you DE. I think we can certainly have multiple cameras. I expect we'll both practice a fair amount because of the stakes -- both financial and pride -- and we'll both learn enough to have the tires in the right condition at the moment of the races. (The 458 is remarkable in that regard -- it tracks each tire's temperature and also gives you color-coded readouts in the left display on when they are ready.) In terms of the stability of the equipment, I have to have a significant edge -- my car is new, and I don't think he's done much to care for his. -Tom

[elmariachi]

I have driving experience with both a Cobra and a 458. If you both want to make this fun, safe and fair, my advice is to go to the drag strip and first run a couple of solo passes against the clock, not each other. This will give you both a better sense of how your cars will behave and it will also dampen a bit of the adrenaline and testosterone that will be pulsing through you by not having to stage against each other.

Once you both make a couple passes, compare results and discuss whether or not you feel you can safely race each other. After 2-3 solo timing passes and 1-2 against each other, you should be able to have a safe race that yields some accurate results, with no hardware left lying on the track and no Ferrari black paint on the walls.

"Gimme $500 on the Bandit...er, I mean the 458."

[289ACE]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I have driving experience with both a Cobra and a 458. If you both want to make this fun, safe and fair, my advice is to go to the drag strip and first run a couple of solo passes against the clock, not each other. This will give you both a better sense of how your cars will behave and it will also dampen a bit of the adrenaline and testosterone that will be pulsing through you by not having to stage against each other.

Once you both make a couple passes, compare results and discuss whether or not you feel you can safely race each other. After 2-3 solo timing passes and 1-2 against each other, you should be able to have a safe race that yields some accurate results, with no hardware left lying on the track and no Ferrari black paint on the walls.

"Gimme $500 on the Bandit...er, I mean the 458."

Great Suggestion

Tommy,
Can you get your friend to join in on this thread? He might benefit from the conversations on the safety issues, and he can let us all know the details of his car.

Jay

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Your friend will win if the 20 miles he put on the Cobra was 1/4 mile at a time! LOL

[cobrakalas427]

Originally Posted by Ibr8k4vetts

Your friend will win if the 20 miles he put on the Cobra was 1/4 mile at a time! LOL

Excellent point!!!

[CoolCarl]

Love this thread.

I would have liked to have heard the conversation that took place when the bet was made. Nothing like 2 guys bragging and talking smack about their cars to get the juices flowing.

I'd definitely watch a video of the race (several times). When is this supposed to happen roughly? Within a month? Within a year?

The anticipation is unbearable.

I was trying to find the video of the twin turbo ffr running 10.07 in medford but couldn't find it. I've seen that video lots!

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Could be a fun thread...moving it to the front page.

Ahem.

[rodneym]

What a fun thread.

Definitely a ton of variables but car for car, if the Cobra driver had experience, 600 HP and slicks, I'd say it's all that 2-3 gear shift as 750HP mentioned. It's certainly the one that kills ME!

Old 427 S/C times are a thing of the past. Some of us are pushing an EXTRA 150HP and more.

Please make sure you post the results and BE SAFE.

[CobraEd]

I didn't read the entire post, but what does Motor Trend and Car and Driver say the Ferrari runs???? Once you know that, you have the time to beat.

Most decent Cobras run in the mid 11s. Faster ones obviously are less than that. Traction is the issue.


.

[tommygold]

Hi all. The race will certainly happen in the next month. I have a good bit of work to get done, but just need to get my car on a truck and meet it in LV. Given all the great points about safety, I want to have a day to practice. I've done more looking on the times, and the tested times for the 458 run between 11.0 and 11.5. I'd be grateful for direction on what I should be asking him to determine what his time is likely to be. Is it simply a question of the engine? I'm confident that it's still the same setup as when Kirkham sold it. Thanks again, Tom

[Voyager]

Without the right tires and practice, I don’t see the cobra staying in its lane.

[STL Mark]

Tom - why don't you send your bud with the Cobra to this web site and we'll give him all the pointers he needs to help him win.

[tommygold]

STL - that's the point!!! I can't send him here. If he truly cares about the Cobra, he'll figure out he needs to come listen and learn. I'm trying to learn here whether I've definitely got the advantage, and over on the Ferrari forums how best to win! -Tom

[STL Mark]

Practice - that's the key. Timing, shifting, launching, staying in it the whole way, cutting a light, not spinning the tires - all practice. For either of you - whomever gets the most (and best) practice runs in will have the best chance. It's the driver that wins.

[tommygold]

I wonder if you all could help settle another debate for us. When he first proposed the bet (it was him, not me), he said that he had a "65 Shelby Cobra." It was only after we made the bet that he explained that it was a Kirkham -- I guess with the original engine, and registered as a 65. In ordinary parlance -- as opposed to this specialized community, where such a detail is critical -- is it fair to call his car a "65 Shelby Cobra"? Thanks.