Drag race - Kirkham 65 side-oiler vs Ferrari 458 italia

[Excaliber]

My ERA 427 side oiler ran 11.9. On street tires. The FIRST time I ever ran a drag strip and barely had a clue.

The problem for the Cobra is two fold. Experience with THAT Cobra for the launch, the launch is everything. Which brings us to #2, the traction, slicks will help, but there not "all that".

I currently run slicks, I can spin them through three gears and can't go full throttle until I'm in third gear, about 80 mph. If I had a 1,000 horse power or 600, it wouldn't make any difference if you can't hook it up you can't use it.

[Ron Scarboro]

Unless the Cobra drivers invests in a professional drag racer it will be a wipeout. I have a GT-R in addition to my GT-40 and 289 FIA (on the way) and the modern launch controls on those cars is amazing.

Getting the Cobra to hook up will be the problem and it is only going to be an even run if he does. Something more fair would be a 30-130 roll on (that stuff you see all over Youtube).

Regards,


Ron

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by tommygold

My buddy is a Venture Capital guy who lives in Las Vegas. He's had the Kirkham for a year and has put about 20 miles on it, embarrassingly. He bought it used in 06, and he says that it is registered as a 65.

I'm sorry, but to me this looks like a recipe for disaster.

He has owned the Cobra since 06 and has put 20 miles on it. Experience in the Cobra will be zero. Based on what I have read so far, both of these gentlemen have large egos (and I do not mean this in a negative way) and their ego and pride will be on the line in this race. That means neither will be willing to lift and possibly loose if something goes wrong.

I hope and pray I'm wrong on this. And that the Cobra wins.

I just noticed something funny here. In one sentence he states he's owned the Kirkham for a year, but the next sentence says he bought it used in 06.

Somethings going on.

[tommygold]

Hi John. Sorry for the confusion in the sentences. He has had the car [in Las Vegas] for about a year and put about 20 miles on it while there. He bought the car in 06 when he lived in California. He did previously put some miles on it. Apparently, he took it to a Cobra track event one time where he managed to get in a fair amount of trouble -- black flagged -- for passing incorrectly, etc. But he hasn't ever drag raced it and seems to have little experience in the car. It's interesting the suspicion that gets attached to new posts; I guess you all have had some bad experiences. I do appreciate the thoughtful responses, and like I said, I'm glad to ask him any questions about how his car is equipped. If there are any members in Las Vegas, his car is parked on the first floor of the Panorama Towers garage; if there are any members in DC, you're welcome to come see the 458. -Tom

[Don]

Tommy, for the three races, post the incremental time/speed for each vehicle in addition to the 1/4 mile ? Might even consider switching cars after the initial runs.

[tommygold]

Hi Don. I'm pleased to do that. Presumably I'll be able to post the video as well. What's your expectation in what direction the times will go? My guess is that mine will stay flat, because I'm basically driving a computer. As for him, I expect he'll improve a bit in his skills, but will the Kirkham's equipment get better or worse as it gets hotter? Thanks, Tom

[Excaliber]

...gentlemen have large egos...

Well thats covers about 99% of Cobra owners, so, no big revelation there.

Tommy, being skeptical of "newbies" just comes with the territory on most car related sites. It's problematic, but some what justified, there have been some extreme examples of "trolls" here and there. Take it with a grain of salt.

Heat from three runs on the Cobra won't be a factor is my opinion.

[CobraV8]

Only a very small percentage of the Cobras I've seen (both in reality and video clips) do run in the 10s. Some Cobras I'd put my money on in this race are Greg Schroeders SPF, Brian Dinsmores Factory Five, hotfingers chevy powered Everett Morrison and the twin turboed 331cui Factory Five that can be seen in a couple of youtube clips.

Most of these cars are kind of purpose build, and the drivers seem to know a bit about racing.

The venture capital guy who put 20 miles on his Kirkham that he bought with some kind fo slicks will lose

Simon

[Buzz]

I agree with Ernie. Unless there is something already wrong, or the driver burns the clutch badly, three runs will just get the Cobra warmed up. Again, this is wholly dependent on the assumption of quality driveline components and a proper build.
Not sure how bulletproof the 458 is, but I know that M5's and GTR's have had some issues after a few hard takeoffs using launch control.
All in all, I still think the Cobra driver is in for a rough time. I hope this happens and we get to see the follow up, unlike some of the great challenges of the past that sadly faded away into nothing!

[dlampe]

I would ask/advise you buddy with the Kirkham to get some new tires. I'm sure the tires he has are road race slicks, not drag slicks meaning that it take a while to heat them up. They will be "slick" on the drag strip. The other point to consider is the age of his tires. Slicks will dry out. It is a legitimate safety issue. Tires are cheap, don't take the chance.

That cobra could easily run in the 10's but he could also turn a blistering 14 second quarter as well. He should short shift all the way through. With the level of torque he has, he should pull with lower RPM's with out a problem. That would go a long way towards keeping it under control.

[tommygold]

DL -- Thanks very much. Safety is a real issue, and nothing is worth getting hurt. So those are good points re his tires. But re short shifting and the like, I'm not giving him pointers! -Tom

[tommygold]

Buzz -- Thank you. I haven't tried the 458's launch control. I'm supposed to wait until 600 miles for engine break-in. But by all accounts it is a dramatic, dramatic improvement over everything they have done before, with respect to both performance and not killing the clutch. Top Gear UK dragged a 458 against the predecessor 430 (available on youtube) and the jump of the 458 off the line was shocking. -Tom

[David Janowic]

Tom I think this guy is gonna use nitrous or something. Why would he make such a stupid bet unless he has nitrous in his car??? You better check it out before the race to make sure he isn't cheating. There is no chance he can beat your car when you can't screw up the take off even if he is a professional driver. Why would he think he can beat a car that has launch control specifically designed to give you an optimal start every race?? Doesn't make any sense to me, plz explain

[tommygold]

Hi David. Thanks very much. He and I do know each other really, really well. We're unfailingly honest with each other, and also have a ton of friends in common. I absolutely would agree re that risk if this were a different situation, but it's like you racing against someone who is virtually your best friend.

So you ask, why would he make this bet? I think he believed at the time he could win. He owned a 430 (wrecked it) and feels like the Cobra is faster. Some of that is just the incredible feel I'm sure you get in a Cobra accelerating and at speed in an open cockpit. But he just didn't know anything about the 458 at the time, and how much better on every level it is than the 430. Now he's stuck and can't back down.

-Tom

[David Janowic]

He will back out of the bet guaranteed. He will find an excuse, I drag race all the time, and i've never seen a cobra break 12 seconds and i've seen a lot of them wreck. They are very unforgiving cars, can you give me a date when this race will be? I will go there and bring cash and bet u he backs out of the bet.

[David Janowic]

And one other question, if you guys are best friends, why would u make a bet with him where he can't win? Isn't that like stealing?

[tommygold]

Hi David.

I promise to post the date of the race. I just need to ship my car out there and find a date. Would love to see you in Las Vegas. There is a buy-out available to him, but it's still a ton of money -- he could buy a couple more Kirkham's. This is in the community of LV gamblers, so you don't just walk away from a bet.

On the question of why would I make the bet, when I made it I genuinely didn't know who would win. I still don't -- hence my questions to this community. Some of the responses think the Kirkham will win -- and remember it only has to be 1 out of 3. It wasn't a sucker bet. And if it were, he wanted to make it.

-Tom

[David Janowic]

Sounds good Tom, best of luck keep me posted!!!

[Buzz]

David, nobody bets to lose, buddy! Starts with a verbal debate - no one backs down - cash on the dash then - let's do it! Each side believes they're gonna win - nothing wrong with that.
And Tommy - you're quite right not to pass on the pointers - the Cobra guy, especially given his inexperience, should be the one on here doing his own intel.

[mr0077]

Tommy, yes, please do post the date of the race; I would REALLY like to see this. I'm on the fence on how this will go if the race does actually occur, but it will be a real sight. I'll swing by the Panorama Towers and take a look at his Kirkham soon.