Drag race - Kirkham 65 side-oiler vs Ferrari 458 italia

[m52mark]

It's a large bet for sure , but you know the loser will NEVER here the end of it ! I wonder how many pages this will gather by race day . Time for another cartoon buzz .

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Jamo

You know Fred (392Cobra), I often wondered something about your avatar...do they swing in the opposite direction for our members in Australia?

I certain that with enough concentration any member anywhere can see them dancing anyway they want.

I know I can.

[blitzforce]

I talked to the shop today and it dynoed at 550 at the rear wheels. Which I am told means its making like 650 at the motor. The balancer cracked during the dyno and was found after, so I have to replace that now. If I can ever get this damn car fixed and get some track time i think I can win this thing. Took em 4 days to do my damn allignment, and I still have yet to be able to get in contact with the track. Does anyone on here know anyone with connections to a drag track in vegas so I can get some rubber on the road, I have yet to run a 1/4 on a track and im really curious what my times will be. According to a g meter I have gotten it in the 12's, but going off a tree will only slow that down, however I'm told the track is more sticky. Plz advise, tks

[tommygold]

With that massive engine it sounds to me like Dan has the triple hurdle of getting the launch right, hitting the 2/3 shift, and the fact that his tires are a disaster for this race.

[RodKnock]

[quote=tin-man;1109233]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It appears that "The 458 Italia is unbeatable, wins all 3" is making a bit of a run at the moment.

Temporary at best, look at the facts, Dan will be loaded for bear when the day comes, will know exactly what his beast can do and will take the Ferrari in at least one race, thus he gets to take Tommy's money and all the braggin' rights that goes with the win. Whereas, Tommy, being a fine upstandin' gent n'all, and ever so mindful of the next Supreme Court argument he's currently working on plus the fact he's on the fast track to becoming one of the most sought after litigation attorneys in Washington D.C. will have this thought at the back of his mind at the exact time he decides to floor it, thus, he messes up and loses the race.

RodKnock, given each car has a fightin' chance its a drivers race, and it will all boil down to who can out do the other person in the pre race psych. wars. IMHO.

Cheers, John AKA, tin-man

What facts? Other than Tommy Goldstein being a sought-after attorney, of course. The rest is opinion and speculation, just like my words on the matter.

If you look past the inherent traction issues, the lack of experience with his Cobra, stuff breaking (balancer-see Patrickt's thread on his balancer breaking) at the wrong time, sync'ing dual quads, then I really think Dan will do just fine.

[Don]

Jamo, will you be attending as the " official arbitrator " in case of any participant differences on the rules etc ?

With Ford now suing Ferrari over the use of the " F150 " designation, the Ford/Ferrari War continues.

[MAStuart]

My Moroso power speed calculator 550 hp 2300 pounds = 9.20s at 146 if you can hookitup!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by MAStuart

My Moroso power speed calculator 550 hp 2300 pounds = 9.20s at 146 if you can hookitup!

With an aluminum block and heads, Dan's Kirkham should weigh-in at a svelte 2,150 lbs.

[STL Mark]

Originally Posted by blitzforce

I talked to the shop today and it dynoed at 550 at the rear wheels. Which I am told means its making like 650 at the motor. The balancer cracked during the dyno and was found after, so I have to replace that now. If I can ever get this damn car fixed and get some track time i think I can win this thing. Took em 4 days to do my damn allignment, and I still have yet to be able to get in contact with the track. Does anyone on here know anyone with connections to a drag track in vegas so I can get some rubber on the road, I have yet to run a 1/4 on a track and im really curious what my times will be. According to a g meter I have gotten it in the 12's, but going off a tree will only slow that down, however I'm told the track is more sticky. Plz advise, tks

Stay calm. Lose the g meter. Get a clean launch, keep your foot in it. You'll win all 3.

[Mdman352]

Originally Posted by MAStuart

My Moroso power speed calculator 550 hp 2300 pounds = 9.20s at 146 if you can hookitup!

That car does not weigh 2300# Try 2800...maybe with driver on board. do the math...



The quarter mile acceleration time of car A which weighs 3274 pounds and has 570 horsepower is 10.432 seconds.

The quarter mile acceleration time of car B which weighs 2800 pounds and has 650 horsepower is 9.4779 seconds.

http://www.web-cars.com/math/index.html

Again, this is a calculation, NOT reality fueled by experience/inexperience as well as other issues.

[tommygold]

This is great news. The calculator explains that I will go in 10.167 seconds, notwithstanding that most of the car magazines put it at 11.5, and the fastest published time is 10.80.

[MAStuart]

Tommy Magazine articles area little optimistic. 11.50 might be hard to duplicate! Under ideal conditions you might be able to duplicate that number. Your 570 hp is flywheel hp there is some lost in the drivetrain. Car and driver weight 3750???

[undy]

Originally Posted by tommygold

This is great news. The calculator explains that I will go in 10.167 seconds, notwithstanding that most of the car magazines put it at 11.5, and the fastest published time is 10.80.

I did a search myself and found exactly the same thing on the times. The 10.80 was at 133 mph, a little high on the MPH for your horsepower to weight ratio. You usually can dump the high number and the low number then take the mean of the remaining published times. That should get you a good idea of what you "could" be capable of.

Just remember, those 1/4 mile to horsepower calculators assume perfect drivers with cars that have perfect gearing for 1/4 mile runs and ideal front to rear weight transfer that loads the driving wheels optimally. You can probably figure running about a second slower than the software says you can run.

My little piece of advise... Stay out of the staging water box, with your tire warm up and driving up to staging.

[Excaliber]

...9.20s at 146 if you can hookitup!

Thats a BIG "if". The biggest problem newbies have at the track is letting the excitement get to them, dumping the clutch and putting the hammer down to soon. You GOT to ease of the line, the race is the last 1/8th, not the first.

I gaurentee you Tommy WILL get the "hole shot", and feeling all smug and good, just before Blitz comes by him and win's by two car lengths. Blitz, seeing Tommy get the hole shot, may panic and go to deep on the throttle, don't under estimate the mental part of a drag race. Patience, grass hopper.

Car lengths in drag racing is like a couple hundreth of second, by the way...

[PatBuckley]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Thats a BIG "if". The biggest problem newbies have at the track is letting the excitement get to them, dumping the clutch and putting the hammer down to soon. You GOT to ease of the line, the race is the last 1/8th, not the first.

I gaurentee you Tommy WILL get the "hole shot", and being feeling all smug and good, just before Blitz comes by him and win's by two car lengths. Blitz, seeing Tommy get the hole shot, may panic and go to deep on the throttle, don't under estimate the mental part of a drag race. Patience, grass hopper.

Car lengths in drag racing is like a couple hundreth of second, by the way...

Ernie - I was always told by friends who race dragsters that the race is in the launch.....

[Excaliber]

That is correct Pat, but my experience with Cobras and the traction issues has been thats not the case. But it is indeed a valid point.

With Bill Boards and a TKO600, due to the lower gearing, I'm guessing he will not be able to go full throttle until 3rd gear. Somewhere close to 80 mph. Now with DOT approved road slicks, a bit sooner, certainly not before 2nd gear at least.

[TerrysSPF]

Tommy- Are you Dan's attorney? If so, I'll bet it's a full time job keeping that guy out of trouble! LOL.

Ernie- You're right. In a Cobra it's all about getting the power to hook up and that usually doesn't happen until 3rd. In a drag car it's all about the launch / reaction time because they're running slicks.

Dan- Make a small investment and go out and purchase some BFG Drag radials. You can get them in 15" and go with the 325's (although the 305's would be fine too). I've driven with both Billboards and drag radials and trust me, there is a big difference.
If you haven't been able to post anything better than 12's so far (and that's without a xmastree start), I highly doubt you're going to get into the low 11's without swapping out the tires and PRACTICE. Do you know what your rear is? You may want to think about launching in 2nd gear. If Tommy gets you off the line (which he will) don't panic and mash the pedal to the floor. Your car is much lighter and you have plenty of HP to get you caught up and pass by him by the time you reach the end of the 1/4 mile..........you just can't panic and spin the tires - and don't take your hand off the wheel to flip him off on your way by.

Both of you BE SAFE and have fun.

[KevinM]

Blitz,

Your motor probably makes around 750 HP on an engine dyno with open headers. The sidepipes on these things are actually very inefficient in spite of how loud they are.

There have been a number of members here who have dynoed their high horsepower cars with and without the sidepipe mufflers. The usual power loss from the mufflers is in the 100 to 150 HP range.

Kevin

[Excaliber]

Yup, 96 horse power loss on my engine with the side pipes on. Fortunately, MY sidepipes can be quickly unbolted and I can run open headers for track day's. Most side pipes cannot be separated.

[KevinM]

As an aside, drag racing calculators assume that the car in question is capable of applying full power for the entire length of the strip. For a high powered Cobra on billboards, that's not even remotely possible. Ignore the calculators, they don't apply to cars that are severely traction limited.

Kevin