How do you handle the questions?

[Joe's Garage]

Repeat ...

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

JoesGarage: What Shelby do you own? Waiting.

As if that's relevant to this discussion. It's just a chassis and body on the garage floor, once completed I'll gladly show pictures and talk about it. Until then I suggest you focus on a more serious problem -

Originally Posted by Paul F

Judge Walsh further wrote:

"Furthermore, we find no meaningful
distinction between what applicant often refers to as a
continuation, on the one hand, and a replica, on the other
hand. Both applicant’s “continuations” and the third-party
replicas are being sold principally in kit form. It is
evident that both are intended to replicate the original
1960s Cobras, including the Cobra 427 S/C."

and

"In 1992, Shelby began to produce “continuations” or
replicas of the original Cobras, including the Cobra 427
S/C, primarily in kit form. A kit typically includes a chassis and body,
but the purchaser is then required to assemble and complete
the car with a transmission and engine and possibly other
parts. Mr. Shelby identified the replicas of the Cobra 427
S/C with the designation CSX 4000.
Shelby has sold the Cobra replica kits for $50,000 to
$150,000."

and

"It is one thing to recognize the legendary status of
Mr. Shelby and the original Cobras, including the 427 S/C,
and quite another to assert that purchasers and potential
purchasers view Cobra continuations or replicas, sold
primarily as kits, which employ the Cobra 427 S/C Design as
coming from a single source. The fact that Cobra replicas,
sold primarily as kits, which employ the 427 S/C Design,
have been sold by numerous third parties for more than
three decades, including between 2002 and 2009, precludes
us from drawing that conclusion. Accordingly, we find
applicant’s evidence based on media coverage of Mr. Shelby
and all of the Cobras not probative of the issue of
acquired distinctiveness." ,,,

What part of "kit car" don't you understand?
You've been skewered, roasted and ready to serve

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Judge Walsh further wrote:

"Furthermore, we find no meaningful
distinction between what applicant often refers to as a
continuation, on the one hand, and a replica, on the other
hand. Both applicant’s “continuations” and the third-party
replicas are being sold principally in kit form. It is
evident that both are intended to replicate the original
1960s Cobras, including the Cobra 427 S/C."

and

"In 1992, Shelby began to produce “continuations” or
replicas of the original Cobras, including the Cobra 427
S/C, primarily in kit form. A kit typically includes a chassis and body,
but the purchaser is then required to assemble and complete
the car with a transmission and engine and possibly other
parts. Mr. Shelby identified the replicas of the Cobra 427
S/C with the designation CSX 4000.
Shelby has sold the Cobra replica kits for $50,000 to
$150,000."

and

"It is one thing to recognize the legendary status of
Mr. Shelby and the original Cobras, including the 427 S/C,
and quite another to assert that purchasers and potential
purchasers view Cobra continuations or replicas, sold
primarily as kits, which employ the Cobra 427 S/C Design as
coming from a single source. The fact that Cobra replicas,
sold primarily as kits, which employ the 427 S/C Design,
have been sold by numerous third parties for more than
three decades, including between 2002 and 2009, precludes
us from drawing that conclusion. Accordingly, we find
applicant’s evidence based on media coverage of Mr. Shelby
and all of the Cobras not probative of the issue of
acquired distinctiveness."

All Cobras are kits. If someone were producing a Cobra today, it would have all of the required equipment such as 5 mph bumpers, air bags, and catalytic converters.

The VIN of a Shelby is indistinguishable from a Factory Five or a '34 Ford coupe kit; having been assigned by the state instead of the manufacturer.

But none of that matters. What matters is that your Cobra has a genuine CSX nameplate. If money and/or pride in ownership is what matters, we can all see the recognition that CSX nameplate gets at the auction block. It's a kit. But you can be proud to be one of the few that have a genuine Shelby.

Its been fun once again to kick this around. One day we will meet and I'll get a look at your beautiful Cobra.

Cheers

Game, set, match!

Or is it?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

When it's completed I'll post pictures and gladly talk about it, until then I suggest you focus on a much more serious problem -

It would be done a lot quicker if you focused more on your car and less on this never-ending thread...

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Game, set, match!

Or is it?

Better go back and read carefully. Never said the continuation Cobra doesn't replicate the original series. Never said that that weren't sold as "kits" to some purchasers. It's irrelevant to the main issue of the car being a genuine Cobra regardless of the form some may have been sold due to today's requirements or that it replicates the original design.

As usual you guys can't seem to grasp or refuse to acknowledge the bottom line which by the way is supported by the federal decision on the trade mark issues. The above dealt with trade dress.

Nice try though

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I agree. It's a technically a true replica of the original Series Cobra. No argument.

Dear all, I think we are done here.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by ChiChris

My IL title had my CSX number listed as the VIN and listed as a 1965 Shelby Cobra.

As was mine in Colorado.

I've been searching for a better adjective to describe the Shelby cars. CS called them "continuation" but I think "genuine" might be better. It's easier to describe it as still being manufactured by Shelby American, but a modern instantiation.

I read the court's opinion a long time ago and while the judge used the term "kit" I did not see a definition of the term. A lot of people use the term and when I ask them to define it they all think the car arrived in boxes and had to be fully assembled. Then try to describe "finished roller".

But for the 90th percentile a "It was built by Shelby just not in 1965" satisfied them. Usually people at a gas station are satisfied. People at a car show will drill deeper.

[RET_COP]

From the Webster online Dictionary
These are the 3 words being used in the posts

Genuine = actual, real, or true : not false or fake
Real = not fake, false, or artificial
Original = that from which a copy, reproduction is made

We on this forum can understand
anyone else would be confused
I looked forward to reading the thread everyday it never got ugly.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

It would be done a lot quicker if you focused more on your car and less on this never-ending thread...

Not so, waiting on parts.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I've been searching for a better adjective to describe the Shelby cars. CS called them "continuation" but I think "genuine" might be better. It's easier to describe it as still being manufactured by Shelby American, but a modern instantiation.

I read the court's opinion a long time ago and while the judge used the term "kit" I did not see a definition of the term. A lot of people use the term and when I ask them to define it they all think the car arrived in boxes and had to be fully assembled. Then try to describe "finished roller".

"Genuine" is terrible adjective to describe the Shelby Cobra replica.

According to the SAAC Registry, I own a "genuine" Cobra, but while Evan's was produced by Shelby, my "genuine" Cobra was produced by Kirkham. See the Registry under Kirkham Cobra. Neither Cobra is "genuine" or authentic. Ned Scudder is the SAAC Cobra Registrar for GENUINE (no quotation marks) Cobras (i.e., 1960's 2000 and 3000 series Cobras).

It's just word play. Seriously, they're all just replicas. And SAAC should "disconnect" themselves from keeping track of anything not built in the 1960's.

As for the difference between "kit" or "finished roller", it's just more word play, or semantics. A "finished roller" is a "kit", because you still have to buy and install an engine and transmission and a bunch of other little parts to get the thing running and driving properly.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Dear all, I think we are done here.

I think we're in overtime now.

Basically, Evan agrees his car is not an original, 60's cobra.
He also agrees that his is a genuine Shelby Continuation cobra.
And finally, he agrees his is a replica.

The only thing he fudges on is his choice of words when asked "the question".
He tells the truth, but not the whole truth, thus leaving the inquisitor with the impression that he is looking at an original, 60's era, Shelby Cobra.
Being a lawyer, you would think he would be able to answer "the question" completely and truthfully so that the person asking the question understood that he was not, in fact, looking at an original Shelby cobra but a replica of an original Shelby cobra made by Shelby.

Evan, you spend all this time and money on a car that, at best, is still a copy of an original. And then you choose (through omission of pertinent information) to let others believe it too.

Why don't you just buy an original and be done with it? Pony up and then you won't have to mislead the public any longer. You'll be able to answer "the question" truthfully by simply saying "YES".

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by jhv48

I think we're in overtime now.

Basically, Evan agrees his car is not an original, 60's cobra.
He also agrees that his is a genuine Shelby Continuation cobra.
And finally, he agrees his is a replica.

The only thing he fudges on is his choice of words when asked "the question".
He tells the truth, but not the whole truth, thus leaving the inquisitor with the impression that he is looking at an original, 60's era, Shelby Cobra.
Being a lawyer, you would think he would be able to answer "the question" completely and truthfully so that the person asking the question understood that he was not, in fact, looking at an original Shelby cobra but a replica of an original Shelby cobra made by Shelby.

Evan, you spend all this time and money on a car that, at best, is still a copy of an original. And then you choose (through omission of pertinent information) to let others believe it too.

Why don't you just buy an original and be done with it? Pony up and then you won't have to mislead the public any longer. You'll be able to answer "the question" truthfully by simply saying "YES".

I never disagreed on the "technical replica" issue. Of course its a replica of the same Shelby Cobra of the original series. How else would it be a Cobra? It is a continuation of SAI production in a different time and place but the same car with some changes in materials and suppliers.

The "kit" debate and the "replica" debate are side shows. The focal point and central point is the fact the Continuation Series are true genuine Shelby Cobras. The fact that Joe Public in most cases is unaware of the Continuation Series or that his "question" is it a "kit" or "replica" is an indirect way of asking if the car is an "original" does not in any way detract, subtract, dilute, change or modify the fact the Continuation Shelby is a real Cobra. Factually and legally. None of your semantics or machinations will change that. You can keep trying though.

Both the World Registry and the federal decisions that struck down Shelby's claim on the trade dress is as to shape upheld and protected the trademark claims of Shelby as to the marks, Cobra/Shelby name, emblems etc...Only one car can legally bear and carry the Cobra/Shelby name and emblems from its manufacturer are in unison on this issue.

I don't "fudge" anything when asked about my car a bit. I am honest and tell them what the car is as noted above. Invariably I also explain Shelby began manufacturing Cobras again in 1996. Believe it or not more than you think have heard of the Continuation series.

It is absolutely comical that you are wagging your finger at me about "fudging" when my descriptions and discussions with inquisitors are factually accurate and fair when a quick perusal of the thread on vanity plates quickly discloses many here are down right lying about what their car is right on their license plate

BTW Jhv8 whats on your license plate? I think I'll go look. I recall you did post something there.

Cheers.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

"Genuine" is terrible adjective to describe the Shelby Cobra replica.

According to the SAAC Registry, I own a "genuine" Cobra, but while Evan's was produced by Shelby, my "genuine" Cobra was produced by Kirkham. See the Registry under Kirkham Cobra. Neither Cobra is "genuine" or authentic. Ned Scudder is the SAAC Cobra Registrar for GENUINE (no quotation marks) Cobras (i.e., 1960's 2000 and 3000 series Cobras).

It's just word play. Seriously, they're all just replicas. And SAAC should "disconnect" themselves from keeping track of anything not built in the 1960's.

As for the difference between "kit" or "finished roller", it's just more word play, or semantics. A "finished roller" is a "kit", because you still have to buy and install an engine and transmission and a bunch of other little parts to get the thing running and driving properly.

First, while Ned is an expert on original cars that doesn't give him the ability to change facts and ongoing history. Sorry. Secondly, while Ned is entitled to his own personal opinions on the continuation cars the fact is he is not speaking on behalf of SAAC here. His personal opinion does not invalidate the official position of SAAC as set forth in the Registry and even if his singular personal opinion were at odds with what's in the Registry and I wouldn't be surprised if he voiced a position at committee meetings it was obviously overruled by the other committee members. The official position is in black and white. Of course you don't like it and continue to set forth your opinions about the "wording" as "unfair", wrong, misguided etc..etc..twisting yourself into a pretzel with twisted arguments and logic to debunk the Registry.

See your opinion/position means nothing and carries 0 weight with anyone but you and those who don't own Shleby Cobras who feel better about what they own by bringing down what someone else owns. Yuck.

The World Registry of Cobras & GT40s on the other hand is a world recognized and respected authoritative text.

Maybe you should write them a strongly worded letter.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

BTW Jhv8 whats on your license plate? I think I'll go look.
Cheers.

I must have hit a nerve. No matter how many words you throw at the subject, your car still isn't an original. And if you are really that passionate about it, buy an original.

And, since you asked, my plate says 427-SNAK. and when asked if mine is real, I reply "no, it's a replica." I guess my ego is smaller than yours.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by jhv48

I must have hit a nerve. No matter how many words you throw at the subject, your car still isn't an original. And if you are really that passionate about it, buy an original.

And, since you asked, my plate says 427-SNAK. and when asked if mine is real, I reply "no, it's a replica." I guess my ego is smaller than yours.

Hit a nerve???? Don't flatter yourself. You are asute though in observing my Cobra is not an original series Cobra. My passion is satisfied just fine and fully with my Continuation Shelby. Thanks though.

Yes, I know what your plate is. The plate is intentionally misleading in one respect and just flate false in the other. First, your car doesn't have a real 427. Its a stroked short block. When people ask is that a 427 you know they are asking....that' rights..., they really want to know if it's an original real FE427SO not some run of the mill stoked 351. Second the clear reference to 'snake' in the plate clearly says your car is a Cobra which is false in every respect.

There are many others here with misleading plates and they know who they are some of whom hypocritically saying what they are saying in this thread. This is just too "rich". Classic Club Cobra. My sides hurt from laughing. Seriously.

Seems like you are the one that longs for a Shelby Cobra rather then a copy of one. Your only cure is to pony up. Your plate says it all.

Oh, BTW your response telling people it's a replica is "technically misleading" too. See Websters. Also the Registry. You should simply say its a fake Cobra. Technically accurate and true, however, since by asking if its a "replica" you take it as really asking if its a fake I guess your good.

[jhv48]

Nice try, Evan, but I'm not going to bite.

You're too much fun to mess with. And much too easy to provoke.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Nice try, Evan, but I'm not going to bite.

You're too much fun to mess with. And much too easy to provoke.

Ditto, every forum has a "class clown", I guess we know who ours is.

Evan - ",,, See your opinion/position means nothing and carries 0 weight with anyone but you and those who don't own Shleby Cobras who feel better about what they own by bringing down what someone else owns ,,,"

Not an opinion/position but court ruling. You're still getting it wrong, repeat after me -
I own a Shelby "Continuation" Replica Kit Car of the Shelby Cobra.

Now that wasn't so hard was it

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

First, while Ned is an expert on original cars that doesn't give him the ability to change facts and ongoing history. Sorry. Secondly, while Ned is entitled to his own personal opinions on the continuation cars the fact is he is not speaking on behalf of SAAC here. His personal opinion does not invalidate the official position of SAAC as set forth in the Registry and even if his singular personal opinion were at odds with what's in the Registry and I wouldn't be surprised if he voiced a position at committee meetings it was obviously overruled by the other committee members. The official position is in black and white. Of course you don't like it and continue to set forth your opinions about the "wording" as "unfair", wrong, misguided etc..etc..twisting yourself into a pretzel with twisted arguments and logic to debunk the Registry.

See your opinion/position means nothing and carries 0 weight with anyone but you and those who don't own Shleby Cobras who feel better about what they own by bringing down what someone else owns. Yuck.

The World Registry of Cobras & GT40s on the other hand is a world recognized and respected authoritative text.

Maybe you should write them a strongly worded letter.

Page after page, that's what I'm trying to do here ("writing strongly worded letter"), if you didn't notice. Pretty stealthy huh?

Blah, blah, blah.....replica, blah, blah, blah.....replica. Ned, you and I all agree on that fact (you own a Shelby Cobra replica). That's I'll care about. And I'm sure there are many others who agree with that fact as well.

Yours truly,
RodKnock

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

..... those who don't own Shleby Cobras.....

Ahh, the penny has finally dropped
You're talking about a real Shleby Cobra!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by xb-60

Ahh, the penny has finally dropped
You're talking about a real Shleby Cobra!

Yes, like The one in my Garage. Haven't you been following along? Man you guys can be dense!