How to avoid losing control

[Dallas56]

I bought a Superformance twelve months ago, still new, still trying to figure this stuff out. Yesterday I took the car on a track for the first time -- Total Driving Experience at TMS. I was cautious. Even so, on one of the turns I momentarily lost control. I was able to regain control without leaving the track, but the experience was unsettling. I don't know what I did to cause the loss of control. I have searched this site, but can't find a consensus answer to my question. The question is this: What causes these cars to lose control, and exactly what do I need to do to avoid losing control? I don't plan to do a lot of track racing, but want to make sure I don't spin on the street. Larry Carlson

[garry viohl]

I have superformance 2807. Goodyear eagles gtII are the worse street tires ever! After a lot of work, road force balance, I could not get the shaking to stop and they just do not grip at all!

Avons will be the best 2000.00 you will spend on this car. All in, tires, shipping, tax, road force spin balance, then with the wheels on the car, take it to someone who spin balances with the front wheels on the car.

I have not seen used avons for sale. Always goodyears GT II, GY billboards, but never avons. That should say a lot. I love these tires. It was a lot to spend on tires, but they are worth it. No regrets.

I have heard these tires only last 7 to 10,000 miles. Threadwear of 80. Great tires, but not cheap.

http://rogerkrausracing.com/pages/pricing.html

[littlewave]

Hey garry what do you think of BF Goodrich t a radials?

had avons on my harley good tire.

[Blas]

You would probably need to be much more specific about the details leading up to you momentary loss of control to get any specific feedback...
That being said...might you have "lifited" in the turn?
People tend to forget that most of us have more HP in our cars tha Ken Miles or Dan Gurney had...and they were pros...
And yes, the std tires are terrible to put it nicely...

[garry viohl]

I have not tried bf goodrich t a tires, but cant imagine them being any better than GY GTIIs. Cost about the same. There are a lot of posts about avons, just about everyone loves them, except for the price!

These cars have way too much HP and TQ to run street tires!

[gsharapa]

Larry,

Couple things to remember. Short wheel base with a lot of horse power equals easy to lose control especially on hard tires and/or tires that are cold. Driving these cars is like driving on black ice ie; be careful as you can lose traction quickly unless the suspension is really dialed in and you have some sticky tires under you. Even then the best of them have lost it. Many years ago I had a Superformance with small block 351 and Paxton Supercharger on it. Micheln Pilots that stuck pretty good when hot but coming out of a corner at Motorsports Ranch my tires were still a bit cool and when I put some power into it the back end came right around and did two 360s. Good news is not much around me. Taking some classes and also following some experience drivers on a specific track would be a good place to start!

[Blas]

Garry,
You still have 15" rims?

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by littlewave

Hey garry what do you think of BF Goodrich t a radials?

had avons on my harley good tire.

BF Goodrich T/A radials are possibly the worst tire for wet or dry traction made today. They are only safe if the car is standing still. I can list many tires that are better, but none as good as the Avon's already mentioned.

Z.

[vector1]

take it out and purposely lose control, learn how to correct being out of control, then the rest is easy.

[marcocsx3121]

Taking some classes and also following some experience drivers on a specific track would be a good place to start!

Good advice. Cobras (or Pseudo- Cobras) spin for the same reason as other cars, exceeding the limits of what Mark Donahue called the friction circle. Learn to drive a more forgiving car first, then approach your limits with care.

[RICK LAKE]

Dallas56 Larry it would take about 2 hours to type you out all the reasons and why things happen. here's a quick list of possible reasons for why you spun out.
Car is not setup for the track, wrong springs, wrong shocks, alignment out
Car has the worst tires on it for the track, they are good for drifting if BFG
Corner weights of the car has balance off
Your speed was faster than your reflexes or mind. It's easy to happen.
Missing your marks for a turn
Brakes not up to the abuse and overheat, fluid boils, pedal fades.
Drivers seat, if running a stock cobra seat you are forced to hold your weight in a turn and control the car, doesn't work. Been there done this too. I now run a road race seat and don't worried about weight shift.
Driving schools are really needed if you want to race the car.
Oil, water, coolant, on the track from a car ahead of you.
Not staying in the drive line and getting into the rubbel junk and it sticks to your tires.
Not warming up your car and tires before hot lapping. low air pressures.
This is the start of a list that will explain what happened. I have looped my car at a couple of tracks from not following a correct check list and warming up the car and tires. Knowing the track is also real important for running the correct lines through turn. If no damage is done outside of a change of underwear, no harm,no foul. This is your learning curve on driving a cobra. You will need suspension increases of 30-50% in spring rated to start with better adjustable springs. Race seat. Top of the line driving suit. Having your roll bar 2-3" higher that the top of your helmet incase of a roll over. I roll cage would be better. Video to car at speed, you will learnalot be watching it run. Looking at body roll, driver control, location of line on track. Rick l.

[lovehamr]

Larry, these guys are trying to help you but the plain fact is that by saying something as simplistic as "I momentarily lost control. I don't know what I did to cause the loss of control." means that you don't know enough of the vocabulary at the very least to get constructive feedback. Most of us would assume that what you mean is that you encountered massive oversteer and almost spun it. While this may be the case, and there are a hundred different things that could have caused it, with what you wrote it could be something completely different. With that in mind I suggest reading this cover to cover.

http://www.amazon.com/Bob-Bondurant-.../dp/0760306036

I believe that you'll find your answer at some point during that read. You may also consider taking a no kidding class or 2 with coaches and school cars before pushing your 90" wheelbase 500hp car to its limits any more. Learn vehicle dynamics before slapping the bull in the snout so to speak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQBkt1BU8WM

JMHO, Steve

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

"......... Learn to drive a more forgiving car first, then approach your limits with care.

the shorter the wheelbase, the faster things happen. If you have access to a car with a longer wheelbase, that is what I'd experiment with to get your confidence up.

Z.

[1985 CCX]

My first thought was tires.........

BFG's Dangerous
Goodyear II's Dangerous

Cobras require a soft compound like Dunlop Vintage, Avon's or Billboards. Sticky tires means less short changes. My last car would spin tires, act up and skip in hard corners with BFG's. Changed to Billboards and life was great.

Low psi is also a good idea...

[Excaliber]

My first thought was tires.........

BFG's Dangerous
Goodyear II's Dangerous

Yup, me too. Fastest way to loose control is to run crappy tires. Either of the above choices apply in that regard.

Goodyear Bill Boards look and work great, at a nice price compared to Avon's.

[Eljaro]

first of all, a Cobra is certainly not the right car to learn going fast in corners.
You steer more with the pedal than with the wheel.
Tires a very important, and BFG are really bad, Yokohama a little bit better and Avon the best bar Slicks. Goodyears are not radials, and they are difficult to balance. I had to throw them away after trying to balance them, which was impossible.
You should check you tire pressure, increasing it for cornering( I run 35psi in the rear), and you should have negative camber in your rear wheels ( I have 1º negative).
The list of things which affect roadholding is inmense, so these are the most obvious things to get right first.
Good tires, good shocks, good wheel alignement and the right tire pressure.

[Tommy]

Larry,
My Cobra is not a SPF, but I've spun it at least twenty times on various tracks. The simple, but worthless, answer to your question is that you likely demanded more of one or more tires than they could give. The usual suspects are entering turns too fast or exiting turns with too much power. The quickest way around a race track typically involves getting as close to loss of control as possilble without stepping over the line. The only way to avoid losing control on the track is to drive like you do on the highway and don't stray too close to loss of control. Of course that will give you a slow lap time and leaves me wondering why you'd go to a track to drive that way.

One of the safer ways to learn what you and your car can and cannot do is to participate in SCCA Autocross events. The speeds and venues are usually safe enough to allow you to step over the line and lose control without doing any serious damage. After you get comfortable at autocross, step up to faster track day events where the consequences of loss of control can be a lot higher.

[Dens]

Larry

I think a great way to learn good car control at a relative slower speed is by doing an autocross. I've chased cones for many years and have done it with many cars, but the cobra is by far the toughest car I've ever driven around the cones and the most fun. I know a lot of people want to go straight to the track and feel the speed...but, I'd attribute a lot of my basic seat of the pants feel to autocrossing. Also you could join NASA there in Texas and go through their HPDE. Dave and Revkah Balingit are the Directors for both the Texas Region and the Rocky Mountain Region. The instructors are very good and have helped me tremendously.

http://www.nasatx.com/

http://www.nasarockymountain.com/

Brad

[Tim Brewer]

I don't know man...from a guy who sorta lost control comming out of an on-ramp last month? With a Cobra, it's bound to happen sooner or later! I even have a set of 315/35 drag radials. I guess being cold outside, they weren't warmed up yet.

[WardL]

You guys are way too nice! You are pointing fingers at the tires, suspension, power, etc. It seems to me the car spun out because the driver did not know what they were doing. I guarantee you when I spin out it's going to be because I did something wrong, not my Cobra. A Cobra is not the easiest to drive, and the driver has to know what he is doing to drive it fast. I may not know what I'm doing, but I know I don't know what I'm doing.