Performance Engineering

CBattaglia · #1 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 06:22 AM

Since this a site where cobra enthusiasts come to share informantion, I feel it is my responsibility to share my experience with Performance Engineering. Apparently the situation I am about to share is not uncommon. I will not comment on others experiences, but I will detail mine. I wish others would have shared their experiences when I was about to purchase my dream car that I saved and prepared for over a period of many years. (one fella did, but I failed to follow up properly.... Thank you, my bad)

I took delivery of my car 3 years ago, my 460 was built and installed by PE (performance engineering). After 7000 miles my motor failed with a major bearing problem. Eric, the owner of PE, offered to fix the problem if I got the car to his shop. I live in NY, so getting the car to him was not easy or cheap. I dropped the car off to him and a month later the car was done, however I had dislocated my ankle and broke my leg severely so I had to rely on family and Friends to go to get the car from Ohio for me. I told Eric of my situation and asked him to give the car a good amount of driving to ensure all was good due to my situation and the distance I was from his shop. The car arrived at night so the next morning I had a friend come over to take me for a ride. First thing I noticed was that there was antifreeze pooled up on the intake manifold. Then on the very first mile the oil pressure was drastically decreasing with an increase in RPM. YUP... My bearings were shot mile one! Eric had me trailer the car to a friend of his that was a back draft dealer. He confirmed that the bearings were fried as he found metal in the pan, he could do nothing so I trailered it back. Another 4 hours of trailering on top of the 24 hours to get it to him the first time. Eric's response was "get me the car back I'll fix it"

As I reached out to my cobra friends I learned of many stories of poor craftsmanship and out right deception. He was not to touch my car again for obvious reasons.

I had a local friend tear the engine down and rebuild it for me. He found that the head gaskets were different not correct for that motor, there was one bolt holding the starter on, several bolts were the wrong size and were stripped 2 of which were on the water pump, the ring gap was way to wide and not proper for the engine set up. The machining on the crank was porous and the bearings were fried.

Eric agreed to pay half of the $3000 bill..... It has been over 3 months and I havnt received a dime. Now my phone calls to him are going unanswered.

For you new guys out there, do your home work and reach out to car owners. There are long time car owners available to you that can offer great advice. Remember, the guys who have a brand new car/engine will generally have stellar reviews. Dig deeper as many problems will come to the surface over time. This post was not easy for me to write, but I feel it is my responsibility to help all of you who are about to fulfill your dream of owning the greatest car ever made.

I am 300 miles into my new motor and enjoying every minute of it with confidence and peace of mind!

macloft · #2 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 08:45 AM

I see in the top right hand corner of your post you state performance engineering built your motor

You going to change that info now.

STL Mark · #3 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 09:48 AM

Feel for ya Bud. Thanks for the post.

AL427SBF · #4 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 09:51 AM

Change that info as in incorrect or should not be listed? If it is PE then he should leave it.

CBattaglia · #5 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 10:05 AM

Its not a PE any more. The engine was stripped down and completely rebuilt. The only thing Eric did at this point was buy some of the parts.

john chesnut · #6 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 11:14 AM

I've been in your shoes with a different company. I feel your pain. Glad that your back up and running.

Blas · #7 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 12:56 PM

NOT taking ANY sides here...
But you wrote:
First thing I noticed was that there was antifreeze pooled up on the intake manifold.

Why did you then drive it?

tcrist · #8 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blas

NOT taking ANY sides here...
But you wrote:
First thing I noticed was that there was antifreeze pooled up on the intake manifold.

Why did you then drive it?

Depends really on what is ment by "pooled". He did not say that he might have tightened up a hose clamp or something as simple as that and then took it for a drive.

There is always something not said/left out and then peoples imagination starts going wild and filling in the blanks with what they think happened.

It will/might end up being a he said/she said thing. None of us were there and involved in any of this.

This probably should of been in the "consumer watch" area instead. A bit easier to look up for future referance.

If one company starts getting a lot of these reports aginst them, that is when the informed (which is us reading the posts) can start deciding for ourselves if we want to deal with that particular company or not.

CBattaglia · #9 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blas

NOT taking ANY sides here...
But you wrote:
First thing I noticed was that there was antifreeze pooled up on the intake manifold.

Why did you then drive it?

I tightened up all possible culprits in the area. That was a story all in its own. 1 bolt was too short to grab and one was stripped. i had to tap it and remember I was a week out of surgery after my ankle spun 90 degrees. I didnt want to bore everyone with each and every detail of my debacle. Just pointing out that the car was delivered to me in that condition. It was the first sign that it was thrown together, not tested properly, etc. Pride in craftsmanship thing...

Trust me when I say the story is worse than I described. I am a man of few words. If I could grunt to communicate I would.

AL427SBF · #10 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 03:16 PM

You should report them to the BBB (Better Business Bureau), they need to exposed at a much larger level that this forum.

James Stern · #11 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 04:13 PM

I have found the BBB as being sometimes less than useless.

BigRed427 · #12 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 06:37 PM

Had similiar problems w/Eric in 2006 building my 427 engine and the install. I would not recommend him.

AL427SBF · #13 (**permalink**) 05-22-2011, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Stern

I have found the BBB as being sometimes less than useless.

Probably true in terms of actually taking action. But they do file complaints, if you call them and ask for customer complaints against any business they will tell you if there are. Some people make that call as a normal course of checking a company out, I do.

You would also be surprised about how telling the company you're dissatisfied with that you intend to file a formal complaint with the BBB, seems to help with getting that financial restitution you are owed (my personal experience).

mdross1 · #14 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Stern

I have found the BBB as being sometimes less than useless.

Went to these people once in our area for an out of state issue,all I got was a runaround.Too bad about your 460,the very reason why I do all my own work.

joyridin' · #15 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdross1

Went to these people once in our area for an out of state issue,all I got was a runaround.Too bad about your 460,the very reason why I do all my own work.

Same here. All that happened in my case was the company I filed a complaint against kept writing they were trying to contact me via phone. Never happened. Eventually, I got tired of the games and let it go. By default, when you do not reply, it automatically states a resolution was found and basically, you are happy. In the meantime, the bait-n-switch tactics by the company I reported is still taking place.

Blittleton · #16 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 07:16 AM

Eric has built alot of motors that have went into our cars. He has done 10 fold in other replicas. So I would imagine he has over 1000 engines in cars spread out over the last 10+ years. Eric has followed up on engines that have had issues for me.

Now, I understand your frustrations as an owner and feel you have been done wrong. Eric should have fixed your motor. Now answer this, was your engine under warranty? Was shipping part of this warranty? Have you ever ran this motor at the track? Who does your oil changes? Is this the first time you criticized Eric on a forum? Once you post on a issue with a forum, this tends to stop all help from parties involved. I see a lot of untold information here. There isn't a engine builder or car builder or even a human being that is 100%.

If I know Eric, he will respond to this and he will tell his side of the story. All these engines, that Eric has built and I have seen some really great stories about him and now I'm seeing a bad story. I think the people on these forums are smart enough to understand that you had some engine issues and they were not fixed the way they should have been. Now you are on the forum to do what ever to this engine builder. I guess I can understand your frustrations. But if you don't give all the information and just your side, this is not good use of this forum or to all that read it.

Bill

crASH · #17 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Stern

I have found the BBB as being sometimes less than useless.

Many years ago I was able to recoup a $12,000 business investment gone sour from 8 states away in part because of info provided by the local BBB in the state where my money was invested.

CBattaglia · #18 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 07:41 AM

If I know Eric, he will respond to this and he will tell his side of the story. All these engines, that Eric has built and I have seen some really great stories about him and now I'm seeing a bad story. I think the people on these forums are smart enough to understand that you had some engine issues and they were not fixed the way they should have been. Now you are on the forum to do what ever to this engine builder. I guess I can understand your frustrations. But if you don't give all the information and just your side, this is not good use of this forum or to all that read it.

I welcome his response. and I will gladly answer your questions.

I changed my oil every 1500 miles. I'll add that my car is always clean, never driven in the rain or inclimate weather. Even the under carrage is spotless to this day. The failures of the engine were not of my doing, I can assure you of that.

I have 7000 fairly easy miles on my car. I took it to a track once for an instruction class. I had to follow a miata becuase I had one roll bar and couldnt take an instructor. I did a total of 3 laps.

My car was not under warranty.

I have nothing to hide and will answer anyones questions. There is ABSOLUTELY no way this situation will be seen as a positive experience as a client of PE. I only post the facts of the situation. All of you can form your own opinion.

blykins · #19 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 07:50 AM

Great synopsis Bill.

Guys that have been in business for years don't stay in business because they sell bad products. As Bill stated, no one's perfect, and even the best of the best have occasional issues.

A 3 year old engine with 7000 miles on it is definitely not a newborn engine. From another engine builder's perspective, the first time I heard that the engine was on the track, instructional or not, all warranties would be off. Also, even without track time, 3 years is longer than most aftermarket engine warranties are valid for anyway.

Bearing problems usually present themselves immediately on the dyno. High oil temperatures, loss of oil pressures, oil filters filled with metal/copper, etc. With oil changes at every 1500 miles (roughly 5 changes) did you see any evidence that anything was amiss?

By no means am I downplaying anything (or shifting blame) that has happened here, but again, there are two sides to any story. If I were in this position as a builder, I would want everyone to see both sides of the situation.

The internet is wonderful for advertising and sales. However, it can be an absolute punk as well. No one wants a bad internet reputation.

mreid · #20 (**permalink**) 05-23-2011, 08:13 AM

The beauty of the Internet is that it allows both sides to explain their position. While no one wants a bad Internet reputation, I've seen these discussions uncover the true root cause of the problem. Sometimes the vendor is proven right and sometimes not. As an independent watching this thread and the other one on broken valve train components, I truly hope Eric does respond. Frankly, making statements about "out of warranty" and implying one track session caused this is a smoke screen. While bearing issues usually do occur sooner, an engine should not fail after 7k miles. Perhaps a failed part or faulty manufacturing of a part that is not the engine builder's fault or perhaps faulty installation that is the engine builder's fault are to blame. We will probably never know.

I've also seen some of the best fail as costs go up and customers go down. They start taking short cuts, using inferior parts, and hiring unqualified help as margins tighten. I'm not implying that is the case here. Fact is, we may never know the real cause. It does concern me to hear about wrong and missing bolts. In my experience, this is the tell tail of the beginning of the end. I hope I am wrong and I really hope we hear from Eric.