Cobra Kit Question

[JimC]

Hello All,

I recently had the opportunity to look at a kit that was for sale on eBay and had a couple of questions for the experts around here. The eBay item number was 320728069246 and the gentleman that is selling it confirmed that it is NOT a continuation series cobra. My questions is 1)Can anyone tell by looking at the pics what kit this is? 2) Is this kit authentic looking to a real AC as I've seen several differences in rear fender lips. 3) can anyone give me hints or pointers that would help my identify a good kit or the kits that are most authentic.

I am knowledgeable in Shelby Mustangs and have restored quite a few cars and am pretty knowledgeable in FE's and have a couple good ones lying around that I am thinking about installing in a roller Cobra which is the reason for looking at this particular car. I am also interested in any info about any CSX continuation Cobra projects no matter what condition (the worst, the better) if anyone has any leads. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

[tcrist]

If the VIN means anything. I would guess a Contemporary Classic?

[Three Peaks]

The VIN suggests a Contemporary Classic, but the roll bar doesn't look like a Contemporary set up and a couple other things on it seem wrong for a Contemporary. Contemporary Classic went out of business quite some time ago, so if it was built in 2008, it must have been purchased unfinished and then finished by the last buyer of the kit.

I'm not sure if I would want to try to resurrect that particular car. It looks like it took quite a hit to the undercarriage and the whole body and undercarriage is twisted out of alignment. Not how I would expect a Contemporary to exhibit damage after a crash.

Bob

[mrmustang]

Might be a Shamrock (rollbar is most certainly a Shamrock), but the pictures are terrible, taken at angles that does not allow for proper identification. 100% sure it is not a Contemporary, no matter what the VIN states,,,,,Do you have better pictures of the engine compartment?


Bill S.

[LMH]

Sure isn't an SA car. That rear rollbar brace that turns down where it enters the body is a dead give away. I've seen that before but don't know what manufacturer it is.
Larry

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by JimC

Hello All,

3) can anyone give me hints or pointers that would help my identify a good kit or the kits that are most authentic.
Thanks,

Jim

At the risk of getting flamed by someone who's car I omit - in the area of true kits you can assemble, ERA, Unique and Hurricane have a reputation for being pretty authentic to originals in appearance - not necessarily in the frame and suspension area. The new FFR body has improved in the area of original appearance greatly. I'm prejudice, but I think ERA is the most authentic in the interior area and probably has one of the best bodies, but with some attention to detail in the interior and underhood, the Hurricane, Unique and FFR can get real close now. There are many other good bodies, very close to originals, but most take some liberties in the interior equipement, dash, seating, pedals, underhood, etc. It depends how close to authentic "appearance" you really want to get - both inside and out.

In terms of rollers then you get into the Superperformance which I understand takes a few liberties in the body configuration but certainly looks very good and has a good reputation for craftsmanship. And Kirkham at the top of the list for being virtually a perfect clone of the original. The ERA and Unique can also be purchased as rollers.

Getting close in authentic detail takes more money the closer you try to get.

My 2 cents.

Oh - I forgot to add, I'm not an expert.

[JimC]

Thank you all,

I really appreciate the feedback and information. I wish I had better pics and fully intended to take some when I went out to look at it last week and I'm kicking myself for not doing so. I may go out there this Monday an take some pics, any particular portions or spots of interest, please let me know. It is sitting at a shipping yard and crammed between several cars making it difficult to get under the car to get a better look at any potential frame damage. When I spoke to the owner he stated, as it states in the eBay ad that it had a 427 and the pics of the engine bay where a little fuzzy. I had my fingers crossed that it may have a cross bolt block in it and I would have snapped it up, but I soon was dissapointed when the guy lifted the hood and I clearly saw the small block sitting there, probably a 302 or 351W or it may be some stroked version of either. I lost all interest at that point because of his asking $$.

After a little thought, I made him a low offer and we are now close but I don't want to get buried in it, especially if it's not a desirable kit or its difficult to get parts for. Considering it has an auto, small block and headers for the same not to mention a salvage title and the body damage, I can see things adding up if I want to turn it into a true 427 cobra w/4spd. I have the drive-train but would need to buy some of the other components for conversion.

Is there any consensus on the kit? I see that Contemporary and Shamrock have been suggested, is there anything I can look at or take a pic of to confirm either?

Lastly, is it real difficult to find a project roller CSX continuation cobra that actually was built by Carroll? I would be willing to step up in $$ to get a piece of the real deal but couldn't step up to the early original cars. Any suggestions with regards to this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

[LMH]

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the modern CSX cars are rollers or complete cars. No unfinished kits in other words.
Actually built by Shelby is kind of a grey area with the aluminum bodied cars. (insert "Kirkham" here) They do carry "CSX" chassis numbers though and that's important to some and not to others.

I may be adding to confussion here, so I guess the question becomes "what are you really after"? Accurate replication? A "CSX" chassis number? Aluminum body?

Larry

[mrmustang]

I can tell you by looking at the door striker it is not an SPF, ERA, Contemporary, CSX, FFR, or Backdraft. Also highly doubt it is a Shell Valley, Unique, Turn Ten,or E.M.

Shelby cars are considered "component cars", sold as rollers only these days (IE: also known as a turn key minus). Splitting hairs as they will, still considered a kit as they cannot legally sell them for road use as a turn key from the factory.

Instead of dredging along the bottom, sifting through questionable car after questionable car,why not just tell us your real world budget and perhaps we can point you to any number of good deals within your price range.


Bill S.

[JimC]

Originally Posted by LMH

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the modern CSX cars are rollers or complete cars. No unfinished kits in other words.
Actually built by Shelby is kind of a grey area with the aluminum bodied cars. (insert "Kirkham" here) They do carry "CSX" chassis numbers though and that's important to some and not to others.

I may be adding to confussion here, so I guess the question becomes "what are you really after"? Accurate replication? A "CSX" chassis number? Aluminum body?

Larry

Larry,

I started out just looking to find a fun roller that I could insert my Aluminum FE and toploader into on the cheap but still have a somewhat close to correct replica. The more time I spend looking the more I'm inclined to buy a project/roller CSX numbered car. I know a little of the history of Carroll and his ability to lend his name to quite a few builders and the fuzzy authenticity of the continuation cars but will have to brush up on my history a bit. Any good book or online sources for suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The 1997 Shelby Registry has quite a bit of info on the original and continuation cars so I'm going to dust it off and give it a good read this weekend to get me up to speed. Probably should have done so before posting to this site but I knew I couldn't get the kit info anywhere else quickly.

As far as the continuation cars go, I do know that many of us who own Shelby Mustangs, especially the 67 models, don't really give much credence to the Eleanor or continuation series Shelby Mustnags even though they carry a Shelby vin and will probably end up in the registry at some point. I like the idea of a CSX numbered cobra even tough it may not carry much weight next to an aluminum body original, it's just a little closer without the hefty price tag and you can get away with telling people it's a real Shelby.....kind of.

So I guess the long answer to your question, is that I would prefer a CSX project cobra but would settle for a real good deal on a real close to correct replica. Both would be ok without motor/trans.

Thanks,
Jim

[JimC]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

I can tell you by looking at the door striker it is not an SPF, ERA, Contemporary, CSX, FFR, or Backdraft. Also highly doubt it is a Shell Valley, Unique, Turn Ten,or E.M.

Shelby cars are considered "component cars", sold as rollers only these days (IE: also known as a turn key minus). Splitting hairs as they will, still considered a kit as they cannot legally sell them for road use as a turn key from the factory.

Instead of dredging along the bottom, sifting through questionable car after questionable car,why not just tell us your real world budget and perhaps we can point you to any number of good deals within your price range.


Bill S.

Bill,

I'm not looking to just purchase a car and drive it. I'm a restorer at heart and love the find, the story, the build, etc. I like the idea of resurrecting something from the grave and giving it life. Not to mention the savings in tax and registration fees I enjoy when I buy as a project. I live in communist CA. I have plenty of time and plenty of projects to finish but from time to time I get a little side tracked and do a little search on the computer and it takes me on one of these little journey's.

I really like the idea of a CSX numbered car and don't mind it being rough. I am very conscious of what I spend at the onset as dollars start to fly real quickly and I don't intend to be buried in it. All my cars are looked upon as investments and I really enjoy the ability to buy, fix and play with them for years and then sell at a small profit at the outset. I don't like to place a $$$ figure and price myself out of the market if a good deal comes along that is worthy of the extra cash.

Is there a reliable source of values from top to bottom of finished cars or is the internet/eBay the best source? I'm speaking of the Shelby cobras, not kits (but not the ultra rare with race or special history) from early originals thru to the completion (or continuation) cobras? And to what number do they go? My Registry book of 1997 only has them to CSX4000's and I've seen advertised cars with CSX6000 numbers. The book also lists some AC MK IV but I have to read further to find out more and need to research to find approximate values. Once I find the value of certain cars, I then backtrack from there to see what kind of value a particular project would have prior to work. It's all kind of a complication calculation but it works for me and I haven't lost a dime on anything I've purchase in the last 15 years, I won't go into the $$$ I threw away prior to that. Any leads on any project CSX cars?

Thanks,
Jim

[mrmustang]

Jim,

I happen to know of a smoking deal on an AC MK IV, think he only wants $74,000 for it, or he did the last time I spoke with him. As for "Shelby Cobras, not kits", a CSX4000 sold as a roller is essentially a kit, the factory cannot sell them as anything but a roller, or they would have to meet current crash standards,which they do not. Best you pick up the latest SAAC Registry as it explains things much further and in greater detail than your outdated 1997 edition.

Bill S.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by JimC

Any leads on any project CSX cars?

Thanks,
Jim

I'm not sure what you mean by "project CSX cars"? Do you mean a new roller like this one which you can buy from a CSX dealer?

CSX 6063

Or do you mean one that has been wrecked, had flood damage or has been abandoned somewhere? I haven't heard of any of the latter, but if you want to buy a brand new roller (complete, but no engine or transmission), then call around to the various dealers across the US.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by JimC

I live in communist CA.
Thanks,
Jim

BTW, things seem different here in Silicon Valley.

[mickmate]

The cars with a CSX 6--- number are the same as a CSX 4--- cars. They ran out of 4000 numbers and went to a new series. They go fast, crash hard and are always available as a fixer upper if you look in the right places. The original car you posted on the e-bay listing looked like a Contemporary to me looking at the tubular door and hood hinges. The CCX number also points to that. The suspension and frames really tell the origin of these things pretty well and a lot of the manufacturers have a numbering series that helps determine the brand.

[1ntCobra]

Although CSX4000/6000 cars are currently sold as rollers, I believe that the earliest cars were delivered to dealers more like a kit. Maybe there is still an early car out there that might be more like a project.

Check out this thread CSX4158 For Sale, but Salvage due to Flood for a CSX car project bringing back a flood damaged car.

[krausewich]

Hi Jim,
Looks to me to be a Gardner Douglas

Sports Cars from GD Cars, Gardner Douglas Sports Cars

Not worth it at all with that kind of damage for what the resesrve is at...
Your best value is finding an unfinished car.. lots of great deals if you're patient : )


Good luck in your search,
Mike.

[JimC]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Although CSX4000/6000 cars are currently sold as rollers, I believe that the earliest cars were delivered to dealers more like a kit. Maybe there is still an early car out there that might be more like a project.

Check out this thread CSX4158 For Sale, but Salvage due to Flood for a CSX car project bringing back a flood damaged car.

That's the kind of car I'm looking for.

[JimC]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

BTW, things seem different here in Silicon Valley.

How do they seem different in Silicone Valley??

[xlr8or]

They just refuse to acknowledge that the state is turning into a communist nanny state.