Dissapointing year end with my Roush 427R

[twobjshelbys]

I feel that there are some people who make enough noise that their issues get resolved, but the amount of work it takes to accomplish that is not my idea of good service, and there are plenty who just go away. I didn't have time to work on it so just gave up after I told them just what kind of recommendation I would give to anyone looking for an engine. As it turns out a friend bought a GT40 put the non-IR version of the 427 in his car. I hope it works out. His dealer/installer is big enough to make lots of noise if it doesn't.

[Varmit]

Originally Posted by james911pro

@Varmit, there is another post on here where a guy had a 402 and even after it was rebuilt it still consumed oil way beyond normal limits and Roush replaced the whole thing at their expense with a 427R.... I am going to contact him to see who he spoke to! Mark at Roush told me to try Rotella-T 15w40. apparently (after doing some research on the net and with an engine shop) there is a special additive in it that counteracts the oil burning.

Thanks mucho
will try that, It went through a qt in 150 miles. Blew me away, Not hard driving either, could kind of understand if it had been hammered pretty hard, but nothing close to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scary.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by james911pro

Mark at Roush told me to try Rotella-T 15w40. apparently (after doing some research on the net and with an engine shop) there is a special additive in it that counteracts the oil burning.

Varmit-forget the Rotella-T. "Mark has told James a fable.
There is nothing in any oil to 'counteract' oil consumption. Especially what you've got-1 qt/150 miles. Even cement wouldn't stop that.
Instead call Mark and ask if Roush is using 'low-tension' rings on the pistons. And ask what the piston to wall and valve guide clearances are. The motor obviously has too much clearance machined in.

[Jamo]

On the other hand...

First, let me say I could care less about Roush either way. But I have to say that any company that provides a warranty has the right to put limits on it, whether it be based on time, usage or initial ownership. What if the car only put on 3,000 in 10 years? Who will determine what the line ought to be, and who will deal with the next person who comes in and says he's got another one with 10 years plus a day?

I also note that there seems to be folks out there who come in and post only after they've had a problem and expect everyone to jump on the bandwagen. Why not join in and post earlier on when initial problems (such as oil consumption) start up? Makes one feel a bit used.

Folks that have been around here and put their toes in the water are known by others...there's a certain amount of credibility that comes with that.

If you went to court, you'd lose. There's a reason for that. Announcing to others that a company should be tarred and feathered because they won't make an exception in your case where the time lapse is not even close to the warranty period...sorry, I don't buy into that. If you approached them on that basis and demanded they cover it, well, maybe they're going to be less inclined to extend a helping hand. I'm sure you can say you were really nice and all, but how do we know how you act? All of your posts are in this thread.

You want a lifetime warranty? Get a Zippo, a Swiss Army knife or a Fisher Space Pen. Hartmann's damn good about their travel bag zippers too. other than that...read the warranty when you buy something. It's not like it's new concept.

As to others who have had problems with this particular company (or others for that matter) during a warranty period (or a damn sight closer to it after notifying folks of the problem before expiration), I say hell ya...raise some stink and hold their feet to the fire if you have to.

Just my thoughts on the matter. You post here...expect feedback. That's the way it works.

[David Kirkham]

I would like to add that we know Bob Corn of Roush personally. He is top notch in the industry. Roush has always helped us out extensively--with no questions or hesitations.

David

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I would like to add that we know Bob Corn of Roush personally. He is top notch in the industry. Roush has always helped us out extensively--with no questions or hesitations.

David

Im sure he would help you out, your a big timer, what about the little guy.

[David Kirkham]

We are all little guys. Everyone is important in this industry and Roush knows that too. They have been around a long time. I don't know the particulars in this case (hey, everyone makes mistakes and that is for Roush to work out), but I wanted people to know that many of our customers are happy with Roush. Bob Corn is a stand up guy.

David

[Varmit]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Varmit-forget the Rotella-T. "Mark has told James a fable.
There is nothing in any oil to 'counteract' oil consumption. Especially what you've got-1 qt/150 miles. Even cement wouldn't stop that.
Instead call Mark and ask if Roush is using 'low-tension' rings on the pistons. And ask what the piston to wall and valve guide clearances are. The motor obviously has too much clearance machined in.

Kind of what I'm afraid of, but there is no smoke or anything coming out the pipes
want to do a compression test and leakdown

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Personally, I would want any engine that I purchased to last more than 2,600 miles. Period. They may or may not help you, but you're not the first on this forum to have a problem with a Roush engine.

You'll be well into your retirement years before you hit 2,600 miles, so no worries there.

All engine builders have problems. Roush motors seem to get a lot of attention on CC when there's a problem. I had a couple of problems with my Roush, but I had two great advocates in Stephen Bramlitt at Full Throttle in Reno and Steve Wood at the Mustang Ranch who brokered the repairs with Roush.

If at all possible, ask the dealer to get involved to negotiate with Roush.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Jamo

On the other hand...

First, let me say I could care less about Roush either way. But I have to say that any company that provides a warranty has the right to put limits on it, whether it be based on time, usage or initial ownership. What if the car only put on 3,000 in 10 years? Who will determine what the line ought to be, and who will deal with the next person who comes in and says he's got another one with 10 years plus a day?

I also note that there seems to be folks out there who come in and post only after they've had a problem and expect everyone to jump on the bandwagen. Why not join in and post earlier on when initial problems (such as oil consumption) start up? Makes one feel a bit used.

Folks that have been around here and put their toes in the water are known by others...there's a certain amount of credibility that comes with that.

If you went to court, you'd lose. There's a reason for that. Announcing to others that a company should be tarred and feathered because they won't make an exception in your case where the time lapse is not even close to the warranty period...sorry, I don't buy into that. If you approached them on that basis and demanded they cover it, well, maybe they're going to be less inclined to extend a helping hand. I'm sure you can say you were really nice and all, but how do we know how you act? All of your posts are in this thread.

You want a lifetime warranty? Get a Zippo, a Swiss Army knife or a Fisher Space Pen. Hartmann's damn good about their travel bag zippers too. other than that...read the warranty when you buy something. It's not like it's new concept.

As to others who have had problems with this particular company (or others for that matter) during a warranty period (or a damn sight closer to it after notifying folks of the problem before expiration), I say hell ya...raise some stink and hold their feet to the fire if you have to.

Just my thoughts on the matter. You post here...expect feedback. That's the way it works.

Dude, this has "I'm a lawyer" written all over it.

[Jamo]

Well, maybe a little.

But hey, neat thing about this place is that we all bring a little something to the table. In the Cobra world and in everyday life, I'm a consumer just like anybody else, and I have to live with the same rules about warranties that everyone else does...whether it's a computer or an FE. I also know that at some point, all companies need to be able to fix their costs on each product they sell. That's the fine balance that needs to be drawn when providing a warranty...serving the interests of your customer base to maintain your business while at the same time putting a reasonable cap on possible claims. How good is a line if folks keep stepping over it? Where does it end?

Course, if folks would pay a bit more attention to protecting themselves in the first place, y'all wouldn't need no stinkin lawyers.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

You'll be well into your retirement years before you hit 2,600 miles, so no worries there.

Never a truer word spoken.

[tin-man]

[quote=james911pro;1157147]

Originally Posted by tin-man

Tin-Man... who are you dealing with @ Roush to get this done?

James, Mark Yagelo, same guy as you. The issue with mine was I waited one and a half years for a my car and finally took delivery, but after driving it for a total of 78 miles it stopped. If you get a chance read my post, 78 miles. Needless to say, Superformance, Bowler Transmissions, Roush and Voss Performance had a very compelling reason to get this car fixed since there had been a lot of press about this car during the build cycle.

Current fix for the grabbing affect is have the ecm recalibrated to reduce the high idle. The ecm will be reflashed and reinstalled shortly and we'll see. All the other issues with the auto transmission not working have been fixed by Bowler and Voss Performance.

BTW, Mark is a straight up guy, hard to reach, but a straight shooter.

Good luck with your issue.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[Clois Harlan]

Let's face it guys our cars are not daily drivers with very few exceptions. If the engines we bought to put in our cars were all tamed down to daily driver standards we probably wouldn't want them. Some of us go with a little cam and some go for a lot more. In some cases we are at the edge trying to decide between performance and reliabilty.

In my eleven or so years of Cobra ownership I have had my issues too. Dean Lampe and I had two 427 S.O. built by a guy with a long history of building performance FE engines and an excellent reputation (not Keith Craft or George Anderson). We spent a lot more than a good amount of money on these engines. Each was dyno'd and properly broken in. Our first miles were put on the engines at a race track and not a full out thrashing, in fact we put in RPM limiters to prevent us from going past 5000 RPMs. The bottom line....in 3 easy laps Deans engine was toast (full of bearing material) mine lasted another 15 mins. No warrenty at all. As fate would have it the builder was at the track when all this happened, he agreed to provide free labor and that is it. Dean accepted and I didn't. That was five years ago. My engine is still being thrashed around at open track events and ocassionaly on the street and I have no problems. Yep it leaks a little and runs a little rich but I know it will break sometime and when it does I will fix it. These engines receive more abuse from being seldom driven than if they were daily drivers.

I think it all comes down to the fact that $hit Happens sometimes and when it does we want someone to blame...by the way, I am just as guilty when it comes to wanting to hold someone accountable regardless of the amount of time since the warrenty. But, I do believe most of our suppliers try and provide a good product but there will always be some weak spots here or there. Sorry for your mis-fortune with your engine.

Just some thoughts from another Cobra owner.

Clois Harlan

[james911pro]

Originally Posted by Jamo

On the other hand...

First, let me say I could care less about Roush either way. But I have to say that any company that provides a warranty has the right to put limits on it, whether it be based on time, usage or initial ownership. What if the car only put on 3,000 in 10 years? Who will determine what the line ought to be, and who will deal with the next person who comes in and says he's got another one with 10 years plus a day?

I also note that there seems to be folks out there who come in and post only after they've had a problem and expect everyone to jump on the bandwagen. Why not join in and post earlier on when initial problems (such as oil consumption) start up? Makes one feel a bit used.

Folks that have been around here and put their toes in the water are known by others...there's a certain amount of credibility that comes with that.

If you went to court, you'd lose. There's a reason for that. Announcing to others that a company should be tarred and feathered because they won't make an exception in your case where the time lapse is not even close to the warranty period...sorry, I don't buy into that. If you approached them on that basis and demanded they cover it, well, maybe they're going to be less inclined to extend a helping hand. I'm sure you can say you were really nice and all, but how do we know how you act? All of your posts are in this thread.

You want a lifetime warranty? Get a Zippo, a Swiss Army knife or a Fisher Space Pen. Hartmann's damn good about their travel bag zippers too. other than that...read the warranty when you buy something. It's not like it's new concept.

As to others who have had problems with this particular company (or others for that matter) during a warranty period (or a damn sight closer to it after notifying folks of the problem before expiration), I say hell ya...raise some stink and hold their feet to the fire if you have to.

Just my thoughts on the matter. You post here...expect feedback. That's the way it works.

Jamo, Don't get me wrong... I am looking for help!! I never bashed Roush, au contraire, I said how much I loved the engine performance, look and potential resale value. However I have a huge problem now with a practically NEW engine. Of course the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if I was having problems I'd be out driving the car instead of looking for answers here. This website and forum has helped me and many other on issues such as tires, wheels, engines and Cobra manufacturers relative to initial purchases, aftermarket parts and warranty issues. If you want to know anything Cobra related this is the place to be someone has "been there done that" and can help. Although I never posted any threads prior that doesn't mean I haven been here reading. As for your claim to warranty status, I have a lot of experience with my company and warranty claims dealing with companies bigger than roush with "FIRM" warranty policies and these are to protect the manufacturer against abusive claims. As mentioned before I have never had an "out of warranty" claim refused by these big companies, there are always extenuating ciromstances and a HUMAN that can override any warranty policy to make things right.

My oil comsumption problems started DURING the warranty period. whether they are related to my dogbone issue I am skeptical, but I was still burning oil from day one. I have now doubt that they can change the dogbone and camshaft while they are rebuilding the rest!.

As for your comment regarding lifetime warranties I believe if you buy something at a premium price the quality should be at a premium level, and the after sales should be at the same level. If you buy a Bic pen don't expect it will write like a montblanc, or if i bought a Rolex watch instead of a Timex I would think yes they both tell the time but expect more from my Rolex.

I really wanted to address your concerns and not start a war of words or legal discussion about warranties.

I simply want to get my car back on the road and was hoping someone could refer me to a person at Roush at a higher level to enable me to have my repairs done. I don't was to disrespect Roush in anyway. The purpose of this feed is to see if anyone else who had these problems had a solution for me. If/when Roush steps up to help me I willbe the first one to post the great news and bard not only about my engine performance looks and over all what i think sells...AFTER SALES SUPPORT. Thanks for your time.

[Jamo]

Good luck.

As to any expected war of words, you presume too much. I have neither the time nor the inclination.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by james911pro

This website and forum has helped me and many other on issues such as tires, wheels, engines and Cobra manufacturers relative to initial purchases, aftermarket parts and warranty issues. If you want to know anything Cobra related this is the place to be someone has "been there done that" and can help.

OK then-get to the root cause of the problem and raise the questions I posed in post#23. Get answers here and we can tell you what the causes are when you give us the specs. Get the cylinder hone pattern and grit specs too-the pros can help you here.

[james911pro]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

We are all little guys. Everyone is important in this industry and Roush knows that too. They have been around a long time. I don't know the particulars in this case (hey, everyone makes mistakes and that is for Roush to work out), but I wanted people to know that many of our customers are happy with Roush. Bob Corn is a stand up guy.

David

David Thanks for taking the time to consult here. I have received very good tech support from Mark Yagelo.He is VERY patient and VERY knowledgeable regarding engines, he is hard to get a hold of but once you get him on the phone he always takes all the time you need and ensures that he has answered all your questions before he hangs up. I do not know Bob Corn but I would like to try to contact him regarding my issue.

I have no doubt with the excellent reputation and vehicles that you build that you pull a good amount of weight with Roush. I am just a small guy. Our "mechanic"/dealer has moved on... Again I don't want to point any fingers I would just like some help moving this up the ladder to be reconsidered.

I bought the Roush because of its great reputation. Mechanical issues happen on high performance engines. I understand that and have worked on cars long enough to know that. I am not mad that a part broke.... but my oil consumption issue remains from the beginning and the broken dogbone has now put mine out of service.

What would you suggest if I was your customer? thanks!

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

We are all little guys. Everyone is important in this industry and Roush knows that too. They have been around a long time. I don't know the particulars in this case (hey, everyone makes mistakes and that is for Roush to work out), but I wanted people to know that many of our customers are happy with Roush. Bob Corn is a stand up guy.

David

Then how about reminding him that they were going to refund for a whole bunch of work after they admitted that they had not completed the DFI programming for high altitude? I even offered them the work product. They have since switched to a different DFI controller so don't care much and apparently I'm the only one that ever really went from sea level to 12000'.

It's not about the money. I already mentally wrote it off. I'd just like them to own up to their faulty design (actually, implementation).

[Jamo]

twobjshelbys

Back off a bit...the conversation is between the threadstarter and David, about the threadstarter's problem. You've gone through the details of your issues several times in other threads.

Thanks.