Need advice on Roush 427IR - no spark

grego · #1 (**permalink**) 10-28-2011, 11:35 AM

I'm waiting for a call back from Roush. In the meantime, I'd appreciate any help or insight.

I drove my Superformance Cobra 2 days ago, ran perfect. Yesterday morning I went to go for another drive, and it will not start. It cranks normally, fuel pump builds up pressure, everything else works fine.

I pulled one of the plug wires and tested first with a timing light and then subsequently with a spare plug. No spark from either test, so I assume something is wrong in the electrical system.

I checked the fuses under the dash, all ok. I have not done anything else as this is a complex computer controlled system for the fuel injection and all.

The good news is this happened in my own garage and am not stranded somewhere. The bad news is I'm way out of my expertise here and do not know of any shops anywhere near northern Idaho. And, I'm returning to China in a couple of days where I live full time (I come back every few months to visit my folks and play with my Cobra).

Hopefully, Roush will come to the rescue. I'd appreciate any insight or tips in the meantime. Thanks,

Grego

bobcowan · #2 (**permalink**) 10-28-2011, 12:17 PM

What distributer do you have? If it's optical Mallory or MSD, replace the module. If it's Ford TFI, replace the TFI module.

twobjshelbys · #3 (**permalink**) 10-28-2011, 12:41 PM

You don't say which DFI controller. Assuming that it is the Accel DFI system.

Try a new coil. It's a quick and relatively cheap swap. If that doesn't do it check your MSD (or other electronic) ignition box. They have a test procedure - you can't simply short a plug wire or the distributor feed.

It is most unlikely but not impossible that the DFI controller itself is at fault. If you have an oscilloscope probe the ignition wire from the DFI controller to the MSD. You should see it pulse. It is a 12V signal so you won't hurt the scope. Under no circumstances probe the output of the MSD to the coil.

You can get the wiring diagrams for these from the Accel web site.

Mine turned out to be the MSD. It just died.

FYI, I don't know about yours but on mine the coil is attached to the engine. I don't like that location and wires were too short to relocate it so bought a high-vibration coil even though the coil was still OK.

grego · #4 (**permalink**) 10-28-2011, 01:42 PM

Thanks, guys. I'm starting to learn a little, being new to Cobras and things that go bump in the night.

The distributor and coil are MSD (coil is a "vibration" coil and is attached to the inner left fender). The controller has Roush brand on it, nothing else. Roush, Mark Yagelo, did the installation. Plug wires, electronics all branded as Roush.

TwoBjshelbys, mine looks to be very similar to the one you had in CSX 4005, slightly different valve and injector covers. Not sure about what system Roush is using.

I don't have test equipment beyond very simple and old style from farm trucks and old cars. The coil change recommendation seems to be the simplest and within my capability. I'll see what Roush wants me to do before I do too much.

I really appreciate your help and advice.

Greg

Blas · #5 (**permalink**) 10-28-2011, 07:08 PM

If you send me your email address offline I'll forward the test proceture for the MSD box. Very easy to do.

tin-man · #6 (**permalink**) 10-28-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grego

I'm waiting for a call back from Roush. In the meantime, I'd appreciate any help or insight.

I drove my Superformance Cobra 2 days ago, ran perfect. Yesterday morning I went to go for another drive, and it will not start. It cranks normally, fuel pump builds up pressure, everything else works fine.

I pulled one of the plug wires and tested first with a timing light and then subsequently with a spare plug. No spark from either test, so I assume something is wrong in the electrical system.

I checked the fuses under the dash, all ok. I have not done anything else as this is a complex computer controlled system for the fuel injection and all.

The good news is this happened in my own garage and am not stranded somewhere. The bad news is I'm way out of my expertise here and do not know of any shops anywhere near northern Idaho. And, I'm returning to China in a couple of days where I live full time (I come back every few months to visit my folks and play with my Cobra).

Hopefully, Roush will come to the rescue. I'd appreciate any insight or tips in the meantime. Thanks,

Grego

Hi Greg, what a bummer and Roush did the install, so, just outa curiosity how long have you had the Cobra? John ,AKA, tin-man

jhv48 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-29-2011, 09:30 AM

If you are still under the Roush warranty, stop and wait for their response.

You don't want to do anything that might void the warranty.

grego · #8 (**permalink**) 10-29-2011, 09:41 AM

Thanks, Jim. Good advice and i completely agree. I've had a couple of good suggestions on testing the coil and narrowing down the problem, which is all I plan to do.

Just had an email from Roush, so hopefully things will move smoothly. The good news is the weather up here isn't so good for driving this time year, so from a timing perspective I guess it's a good time for it to happen.

twobjshelbys · #9 (**permalink**) 11-01-2011, 04:42 PM

Were you able to resolve this? Please share the diagnosis/fix.

grego · #10 (**permalink**) 11-02-2011, 08:09 AM

Tony,

I'm still waiting for Roush. I will share as soon as they get back to me on diagnosis and steps. So far only an email telling me they would get back to me.

Greg

Clois Harlan · #11 (**permalink**) 11-02-2011, 10:38 AM

There is a white wire coming from you red MSD box it cannot be grounded unless you are using it for an antil theft device. Make sure it is not touching anything that would cause it to ground out.

twobjshelbys · #12 (**permalink**) 11-02-2011, 12:53 PM

I would encourage you do do the basic MSD 6xx (or whatever capacitive discharge ignition box you are using) checkout without waiting for Roush. It's simple to do and will almost assuredly be something they will want you to do no matter what. The MSD process is on their web site.

twobjshelbys · #13 (**permalink**) 11-11-2011, 02:44 PM

Any progress on this?

grego · #14 (**permalink**) 11-13-2011, 08:43 PM

Guys,

Thanks for all your help. Unfortunately, I'm back in China and not able to do anything. I'll be back to US next week and will dig into it more then.

Also, Roush has yet to respond to my warranty claim and emails other than a quick email from Mark Yagelo directing me to their warranty people about 3 weeks ago. I've sent follow up emails and will call them when I am back if I don't hear from them before.

Roush themselves did the installation.....and this was theirs and Superformance's show car. I would think (and hope) they would have responded by now.

Thanks again to all of you guys who have been so helpful.

Buzz · #15 (**permalink**) 11-13-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grego

The good news is this happened in my own garage and am not stranded somewhere. The bad news is I'm way out of my expertise here and do not know of any shops anywhere near northern Idaho. And, I'm returning to China in a couple of days where I live full time (I come back every few months to visit my folks and play with my Cobra).

Hopefully, Roush will come to the rescue. I'd appreciate any insight or tips in the meantime. Thanks, Grego

China, SPF Cobra, and problems with a Roush injected motor?

This all sounds eerily familiar. I hope it turns out to be something simple and you get it sorted out as painlessly as possible.

grego · #16 (**permalink**) 11-16-2011, 09:46 PM

It's a familiarity I could do without! Hopefully, it's something simple in the ignition system with a solution I can pass on to others if something like this happens to them.

mreid · #17 (**permalink**) 11-16-2011, 10:08 PM

Geez, I knew that MSD components had been outsourced to China, but damn, now the owners too???

Grego, I'm not sure which MSD box you have, but they are all very similar. Look on page 9 of this MSD instruction manual and try the spark test when you get back. It will help you isolate the problem. Keep in mind that a bad coil will often seem good until it heats up, although in your case it seems you have no spark when the engine is cold. Believe it or not, this will simplify your troubleshooting. Good luck!

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...5_frm29772.pdf

twobjshelbys · #18 (**permalink**) 11-17-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreid

Geez, I knew that MSD components had been outsourced to China, but damn, now the owners too???

Grego, I'm not sure which MSD box you have, but they are all very similar. Look on page 9 of this MSD instruction manual and try the spark test when you get back. It will help you isolate the problem. Keep in mind that a bad coil will often seem good until it heats up, although in your case it seems you have no spark when the engine is cold. Believe it or not, this will simplify your troubleshooting. Good luck!

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...5_frm29772.pdf

Depending on the time of manufacture this could be an Accel DFI based system. Their capacitive discharge ignition box is interchangeable with MSD6 series. The only difference is the "fire" wire is blue. The rest of the spark test procedure is identical. Their book is at:

http://www.accel-ignition.com/portal..._dfi_75606.pdf

Jacobyte · #19 (**permalink**) 11-17-2011, 03:51 PM

I run a 402IR with Accel, and one day in August it just cut out and wouldn't restart. I couldn't get a spark, so changed the coil, checked all connections, and couldn't fix it. Eventually I got the problem diagnosed by the UK Superformance installer - it was the Accel spark module. One new part, and it's running sweetly again.

grego · #20 (**permalink**) 11-17-2011, 08:34 PM

Thanks, Jacobyte,

Roush is working with me now to help narrow down the problem before it gets sent to a shop as there are no capable shops closer than 500 miles. We're pretty sure it's one of the components, just which one so we can figure out the best solution for a shop.

Where in UK are you? I work for a London HQ company and get there every so often.

Grego