Here's the skinny.....78 miles

tin-man · #1 (**permalink**) 11-12-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Seriously though, what was their solution to the "bucking" that you and I talked about off-line? Was it a re-programming of the computer controls?

That's correct, here is what I was told by Mark Yagelo at Roush:

The ECM is on site. I'm told the Calibration Team is transferring the necessary cal changes from the 427 strategy to the 511 strategy. As soon as this task is complete, the ECM will be flashed and returned to Erick. The strategy is proven in a slightly different application. The actual changes are virtually transparent between the 427IR and the 511IR calibrations. We have high confidence this is going to work perfectly right out of the box. Erick is more than capable of driving the vehicle and giving a competent evaluation of it's performance. If there are issues, which we do not anticipate, we'll deal with them as they arise.

Patrickt, if you recall the engine had a high idle being about 1100RPM and created the grabbing effect you saw in the video, however its now reduced to 950 based on what I was told by Erick Voss of Voss Performance::

I got the ecm and went to Hillbank put it and drove it back to my place, the idle is at 950 so much better then before. I have to do some wiring and drive it some more.

Given that Lance Stander from Hillbank Motors will do a final test drive and provide feedback before I pick up the car from his showroom on December 12th. I believe it will be ok from then on.

And just to put a final cap on this episode the transmission issues were fixed and were described by Mark Bowler as:

This is not a warranty or failure. This is lack of taking the time to set the shift points. I am very confused, I have been doing this 23 years and deal with top builders across the world and have never had anyone not understand that the transmission must be calibrated once the car is running, and I have never had any of them not take care of it them self. As you and I spoke before you shipped the car, it had to be calibrated, your words were you didn't want to worry about that and that would be John's responsibility to handle it, that you were not paid to do that. I disagree, if you are a car builder and your job is to deliver a finished project to the customer, then it is part of the process. I know that probably sounds bad, but I have heard Roush and Bowler thrown under the bus form the beginning of this failure, which ended up being a bolt lose on your end that caused all this commotion. Yet we are still being thrown under the bus.... The only reason I suggested going to Mike at Compushift is due to you not wanting to do this yourself. This is something that anyone can do with a few minutes of driving and tuning. There is no way anyone can calibrate a transmission to shift perfectly without having a completed vehicle. We set the basic calibration with what data we have from the customer and then the rest is in the hands of the builder / owner. Every individual is going to have their own personal settings on how a car should shift and perform. If you do not want to take the time to travel 30 minutes to Compushift and have him tune the shift points for you, I recommend to set the shift points yourself. Trust me I understand the value of time and know where you are coming from. It takes about 15 - 30 minutes to fine to tune the shift points. I have arranged Mike to do this at no charge for John and all you have to do is deliver the car and wait while he sets it up. Mike or I would be more than happy to spend the time with you on the phone if that is more manageable.

I make no judgement value regarding this communication between Mark Bowler and Erick Voss, what happened to my car should never have occurred and speaks for itself. I do believe however what happend was among other things a result of not putting sufficient seat time on the vehicle to shake out these items before it was turned over to me, thus to all newbies who read this post and all enthusiasts who are ready to pull the trigger, may I suggest you consider making sure part of your written agreement is the installer put several hunderd miles on the car before you take delivery just as a precaution so you don't have to go thru what I did.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

csx4910 · #2 (**permalink**) 11-12-2011, 10:00 PM

Amen to that Tin Man!

twobjshelbys · #3 (**permalink**) 11-12-2011, 10:06 PM

I couldn't agree more. I lost patience and did it myself. In the end it was worth it.

Keithc8 · #4 (**permalink**) 11-12-2011, 11:21 PM

We tune the ECM on the dyno for that engine. We start with a base tune for an engine similiar to it and dial in some from there. We then make sure that who ever does the install understands that there will have be some final tuning in the car to get it just right. We like to put quite a few miles on them and tune on then as we drive them to dial in the best.
When possible we like to do some tuning on the chassi dyno. Even though we are using pretty much a combination we have done before, we are using different ECM, injectors, wiring harness and sensors in the new engine. What I mean is that even the same brand parts may be a little different from what we got before. Air filters, headers, fuel and how it is all installed can effect the tuning.
The new self tuning stuff that Comp Cams has out is working pretty well on the engines that we have done. If your cars does not run like you want I would see about getting some tuning done when the car was being driven around.

Good luck, Keith Craft

csx4910 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-13-2011, 06:49 AM

Tinny, Having some of the same tuning issues, I can attest to what Keith said and we finally had the best success with Charlie and Hot Rods By Dean and Bob Reem(the local injection guru) plug in the laptop and take a drive with my car and do some tune as we go. It finally did the trick to get the fuel injection working at optimum performance.

Silverback51 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2011, 07:20 AM

I'm praying that they have your car totally sorted out for you and you can really enjoy it this time.

tin-man · #7 (**permalink**) 11-14-2011, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverback51

I'm praying that they have your car totally sorted out for you and you can really enjoy it this time.

Well John, it was very nice of you to say that and while I certainly understand the power of prayer, I was being very dramatic when I said there would be a second coming of biblical proportions, so please don't take that too seriously, now going postal is another matter. That said, I too have folded my hands and bowed my head that all things will work out so we will see. I really have to thank the folks at Bowler and Roush and Voss for reacting quickly to an event that if it were my company would cause heads to roll (postal effect) and I believe it could have all been resolved during the installation phase if handled better, anyway that's now history, lets see what December 12th brings. Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

tin-man · #8 (**permalink**) 11-14-2011, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csx4910

Tinny, Having some of the same tuning issues, I can attest to what Keith said and we finally had the best success with Charlie and Hot Rods By Dean and Bob Reem(the local injection guru) plug in the laptop and take a drive with my car and do some tune as we go. It finally did the trick to get the fuel injection working at optimum performance.

Good points and I intend to swing by by Charlies place of business when I finally get to stay at home in May. So just out of curiosity, what does your car idle at 1100RM or less?

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

csx4910 · #9 (**permalink**) 11-14-2011, 12:49 PM

Right at 900-1000 rpm for idle

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 12-12-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tin-man

Given that Lance Stander from Hillbank Motors will do a final test drive and provide feedback before I pick up the car from his showroom on December 12th. I believe it will be ok from then on.

Uhhh, my trusty assistant had this day marked in RED. Well? Did you make it to mile marker 79??

Silverback51 · #11 (**permalink**) 12-12-2011, 11:09 AM

Got to agree with Patrick. Inquiring minds want to know.

madmaxx · #12 (**permalink**) 12-12-2011, 01:39 PM

I am also interested, please update!! This should have been a reality show

patrickt · #13 (**permalink**) 12-12-2011, 01:55 PM

He's either having the time of his life, or...... he's broken down by the side of the road and fit to be tied.

fordracing65 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-12-2011, 01:58 PM

Take it to AMP, All mustang performance, all they do is tune engines, when I got my DOHC cammer Charlie at Anthem same guy at Hot rods couldnt even get my car starterd, let alone tune it, I took it to amp, Charlie came with me on that trip so he could learn an FI engine, dont think he ever saw anything but a carb, they have a dyno, and are priced very resonable. AMP in tempe AZ.

tin-man · #15 (**permalink**) 12-13-2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

He's either having the time of his life, or...... he's broken down by the side of the road and fit to be tied.

Sorry guys, I did an update on another post: 78 miles update. I then went on to read the threads and saw this one. BTW the saga contiunes, it was raining so could not get to drive my car, tomorrow is another day however so maybe between showers I'll get some seat time.

Cheers, truly Cheers, John,