Big block or small block?

[vatdevil]

Fords new 5.8L aluminum block 650 hp/600 ftlb is a game changer. Rumor has it that it can handle 900+ hp. If I was building new, would have to consider this option.

[fordracing65]

That motor is a big as a house, just do a 460, same power, cheaper.

[GG108]

I bought my car (FFR) 3 years ago already built with a 351w…and it was awesome. I've always had a love affair with the 427…it was a mystical engine to me that belonged in a Cobra. I immediately planned a big block swap and if I would have had an extra $20,000 at the time, I wouldn’t have blinked with a modern aluminum 427 FE. I instead went with a 385 series 545. My engine has become kind of freakish as it’s morphing into a supercharged SuperSnake (complete w/SS hood). Now, I wouldn’t trade it!

After being in the Cobra fraternity for some time now and part of an incredible and diverse group of guys within the Capital Area Cobra Club, we’ve got everything up here...countless kits and engines. As Bill stated, your use of the car is an important factor. We have a serious race squad here (track & autocross) and they’re all small blocks…and they’re nasty! My car should be the king of the drag strip in the area, but I haven’t learned how to drive it yet, so our best time is currently held by a sb…and I’m still honored.

Now there is something so pure and beautiful about the modern CSX’s, Kirkhams, and ERA’s , that even I would feel funny about anything other than an FE in them. They’re just so true to the originals (there is a picture of Patrick’s car where it is still, but looks like it’s in motion…about as beautiful a picture of a Cobra as you’ll ever see). We have several Kirkhams and a few CSX’s (a 4000 & a 6000) in our club and when you stare at them, it’s like flashing back in time. All have 427 FE’s in them. All make your mouth drop open! And that’s before they even start…then, oh my God…that sound! With my car starting out not so true to an original, it’s been easier to take some liberties…but to this day, I still get goose bumps when I stare at or drive it.

Bottom line…when you grow to truly love something, it doesn’t matter what others will think (but there is definitely a magic to a BB 427 in a Cobra)

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best with your car

(within the CACC, this is always a fun ribbing back and forth between the SB & BB guys!)

Merry Christmas to Everybody!

[fordracing65]

Very well said, every time this topic comes up some people sigh, but I can listen and read about the mighy FE all day long.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by GG108

They’re just so true to the originals (there is a picture of Patrick’s car where it is still, but looks like it’s in motion…about as beautiful a picture of a Cobra as you’ll ever see).

Ahhh, you're probably thinking of this shot. And the story behind it has ERAChas commenting "Pat, your car looks like it's going fast even when sitting still -- I'd sure like a pic of it, if you don't mind." So, a little nip & tuck here, a little Gaussian there, and voilà -- a showpiece shot for Chas! The hi-res version of it now adorns the living room wall of his home, right next to a pic of his beloved Golden Retriever, Rex.

[RACER X #99]

Originally Posted by patrickt

And to the OP, you might search this entire board for a single post saying "Boy, I sure wish I had put a small block in my SC." You won't find it. (Of course, if you're building a FIA, that's completely different... but the fact that you were even talking about an FE tells me that's not the case.)

Actually that's not true. Since you are a newbie here (you have only been here since 2005) you know nothing about the big vs small battles that went on years back. You'll have to do a little research and see if you can talk to the guys who started posting here back in the day when this site was composed of hobbyist who actually built their own replicas with their own hands.
It all depend on what you want out of your Cobra. Do you want oohs and aahs at the car show or do you want guys at the road course coming up to you and asking what kind of power do you have. (remember first off Cobras are road race cars not drag cars)
Do a little research and then come back with all the answers.

[Dwight]

if you have the money buy the FE, 427 or the 428 cost about $14,000 up.

if you don't have that much money then spend $9,000 on a 408 stroker 530 hp 540 tq.

I build my small block 302 stroker and spend maybe $8,000. I make 400 at the rear wheel with 52% weight on the rear.

Now if I had the money when I started my build and know what I know now, BIG BLOCK.
I have a couple of buddies with 427's & 428 strokers with over 600 flywheel hp. I have driven their Cobras and love them. I think in the quarter i can keep up with them, very close. We tried each other at the lights before and they do not pull away from me.
So I think there is a point of no return on horsepower vs Cobra.

One of the first post I read in this thread suggested you buy the motor you want and spend the money on tires and suspension. I agree whole hearty.

Now if you are the type of person who cares what others think about your Cobra motor, then you must buy the 427 FE big block motor with a lot of hp. The 351W will not do.
You will not be happy if you don't.

I have people at car shows that love my car till they ask what motor and then give a none approving comment and walk away. (hood up and they are looking at a fuel injected 302). I bet they drove to the show in a beat up Honda.

I was sitting at a red light one day and the guy in the car next to me ask what motor and I told him a small block. He made some comment like "oh just a small block". I left the light in a cloud of smoke. At the next light his comments where more positive. He was in a beautiful 55 Chev.
They have ask what motor while I'm at the red light and I ask what does it sound like, every time they say "big block". Which proves they don't know hit about Cobras and Cobra motors. Well maybe the 600 lift cam and 3" Classic sidepipes throw them off a little.

Buy what you want and drive the wheels off of it.

We care what they think but you can not please them all.
Most of the comments are very positive but every now and then you will get a expert that will make you laugh out loud.

Dwight

P.S. Some of the 427's in our group, I can pass anytime I want to. So if you go big block you better buy some good speed parts and have someone build it that knows how to get hp out of a Ford FE, cause not all motors are created equal.
Come on over and we'll give you a ride in several different Cobras. Then you can decide.
Dwight

[Dwight]

"Boy, I sure wish I had put a small block in my SC."

Dwight

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'm still trying to get over RodKnock's callous disregard for our friends with 385 engines and their inherent honesty in choosing that line of engines. You'd think he would have gained some sensitivity over the years... but apparently not.

Fortunetly it does not matter to a lot of us.Everytime I open the hood for most that are not Cobra owners the Wow! response is all that matters.In all the years I have owned this car only one person has ever critisized and he was an FE guru.My day of redemption came at a car show one year he pulled up beside our car and parked.Our hood was up his was not, a photographer asked if he would lift his hood,then spun around with camera on a tripod and took a dozen or more pictures of our car and the engine bay.Bottom line is these cars we are putting all different types of engines in are KIT CARS!!!! plain and simple.Truly amazes me why the FE crowd has to be so starch collared about it.Course we have the unknowing few that always ask "Is it a real one"As I said in the beggining It Does Not Matter! When I climb into the cockpit of my own handbuilt big block Cobra,there aint nobody on Gods green earth more happy or proud.Nobody can take that away including the small block,FE,guru's even Mr Shelby,and especially those that don't have a clue.
This is what the sport/hobby/passion/should be!!!!

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

"Pat, your car looks like it's going fast even when sitting still -- I'd sure like a pic of it, if you don't mind."

NOT. George Lucas couldn't make that thing look fast. I can't believe Peter let that out into daylight with the company name on it. He just 'took the money'.
I AM removing any laxative supplies from the cabinet and hanging this in their place.
Rodknock said it best:
"Wait a second here. Patrick has a 428. That's like the light beer or a white wine spritzer's of FE's."
Yep, Cobra-Lite --only with Groucho's eyebrows.
Keep me out of your web psycho-babble and stop attempting to be the wise sage to the Cobra world. Even the noobs can see you're a jackass.
Put this under your tree.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I AM removing any laxative supplies from the cabinet and hanging this in their place.

Rex is not going to like that. Oh well, Merry Christmas anyway.

[olddog]

The London, Ohio Cobra show usually pulls in around 200 cars give or take. I have been there the last 5 or 6 years. The first two I went to, I counted the SB, FE, and 385 engines. About 3/4 of the Cobra there are something other than a FE. Very few are 351C or 385 series engines. Of the 1/4 that are FE engines, many are 390 blocks, but it is hard to say, the FE guys are the least likely to talk to you about what their engine is. My gut tells me that there are very few original 427 blocks, let alone side oilers. One year (maybe more) there was a fellow there with a tunnel port 427. Nice guy and very nice car. Every year more and more Modular engines show up.

When you go to the auto cross, there is typically 30 cars give or take 10. Maybe 2 or 3 will have an FE engine. Certainly a far cry less than the 1/4 that are there. I have never saw or heard of a 385 series engine there, but I could have missed one. Why do the BB cars rarely show up? I cannot say that I could tell what engine was in a car at the auto cross by the way it handled.

The Big Block cars are well represented at the burn-out / 1/8 mile rides.

Now London pulls cars in from practically every state (Florida, Alabama, Illinois, etc), Canada, and even a member from down under. A few trailer them in, but most drive them. Certainly there are thousands of replicas and 200 is a small sample. It may not be representative of all Cobra. If in fact most replicas do have FE engines, then for what ever reason they just do not come to London.

You read the FE Engine area of this forum, and I think you will find they are quite prone to problems and not the most reliable engine choice. If you have one of the top builders in the country (who are on this forum) build one, maybe they are about the same reliability of the Windsor, if you ignore the oil leaks. But they cost about 1.5-2X.

Now with that said a ton of people are car enthusiasts, and they know a bit about the Cobra. They all have excitement in their eyes when the see my Cobra, and ask does it have a 427 in it? I always say no its just a small block, and you can see the disappointment in their eyes. I have never had any rude comments, but I do not try to pretend or defend anything about my engine. It is what it is.

[fordracing65]

On looks alone, the mod motor in the car fills up the engine bay with the huge dohc heads and people love it, they ask questions all day, as they would with a 351 or an FE, what really matters is do you have a cobra and do you love it, we all do and im sure everyone on here enjoys there car just as much as the next guy, I have driven all cobras with all these engines if you didnt know what was under the hood even the so callled experts you probably couldnt tell the difference, seeing the power levels were the same.

[Wbulk]

Olddog, well stated! As I read these posts it does evoke some emotion, which I question why? It is funny to think that people that own a replica car actually think their car is better or worse because they have one engine over another. I think these arguments started in the 60s when I was in High School. But for some reason it seems to be more intense with those who buy their engines instead of build them. It's all just pretend anyway! We are little boys grown up, playing with expensive toys. I admit it. Actually, I like what the Aussie guys build. The are more open minded and seem to be more innovative. In my mind new ideas are more interesting.

Bills questions are more relevant.

Wayne

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Wbulk

We are little boys grown up, playing with expensive toys.

Oh yeah? Well take this:

Originally Posted by Wbulk

Actually, I like what the Aussie guys build. The are more open minded and seem to be more innovative.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Australia started as a penal colony, sometimes I think it still is.

[Wbulk]

That is funny.

[twin turbo]

Krkucin, if you are looking at used cars, just find the nicest car that appeals to you that's within your budget. There are some great buys out there. It seems a lot of the SPF cars I've seen run small blocks, you'll have more selection of big block cars if you expand your list to include an ERA.

Regarding the small vs big block debate, it really comes down to personal preference. I think both are great and each has trade-offs which is why I went totally non-traditional with a twin turbo small block. In the end, you may have to choose between a super nice small block car and a not as nice FE car for the same price. Cheers.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

In the end, you may have to choose between a super nice small block car and a not as nice FE car for the same price.

There are countries that allow you to sell your body organs. You could always do that, then fly home and get the FE. Just food for thought....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by olddog

You read the FE Engine area of this forum, and I think you will find they are quite prone to problems and not the most reliable engine choice. If you have one of the top builders in the country (who are on this forum) build one, maybe they are about the same reliability of the Windsor, if you ignore the oil leaks.

The BS meter is pegging at 11. The small block people love their small blocks. The FE people love their big blocks. The 385 people love their engines. And the one person with a DOHC mod motor loves his engine. It's the bestest!

I can't believe I post in these stupid SB versus BB threads.

And Patrick's car doesn't look fast in that picture. It looks like the photographer had one too many drinks at the oyster bar before he or she took the picture.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And Patrick's car doesn't look fast in that picture. It looks like the photographer had one too many drinks at the oyster bar before he or she took the picture.

Uhhh, at least one other person besides me believes it to be "about as beautiful a picture of a Cobra as you’ll ever see." Yep, ERAChas is still hitting the Maalox from having to deal with that little gem.