vin location

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

Remember CXS the X was experimental that would make this a Shelby 427 that was experimented on with a body change...

The 'X' in CSX or COX or AEX or BEX etc used by AC Cars stands for 'export', not experimental.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

I think if it can really be proven that it is chassis #CSX3063,which means it was made by AC Ltd under contract for Shelby American,designed by Ford for Shelby American. I think you have to say it is a Real 1964 or 1965 (whatever it would be)Shelby!! Remember CXS the X was experimental that would make this a Shelby 427 that was experimented on with a body change. Its value will not be as high as well documented from the factory Shelby 427SC but it is a real Shelby 427 and can rightfully claim the Shelby magic and value. If it can be proven it is #CXS3063 and that is a big if???

What...?
Larry

[Thor maine]

The " X " seems to depend on which book you read. Like a lot of things from the 60's it's a gray area.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

The " X " seems to depend on which book you read. Like a lot of things from the 60's it's a gray area.

Nope, not gray at all. You can review it in the SAAC Cobra Registry and the ACOC Registry.

You may be thinking about the present day terminology used by SA for their "CSX" cars.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Larry,

Nedsel (here on this thread) is the SAAC Cobra Registrar, believe me, he already knows more about this car than the OP.

Bill S.

Yeah, you're right Bill. I was thinking that if word came down from the almighty (SAAC... Ned...etc), it might help the OP and this cars current owner as to what it really is. They might see it as a little more "offical" so to speak.

Larry

[Thor maine]

I went back and looked up "CSX" in some of my books about Shelby and Cobra's and in one on one interviews and in "as dictated by Carroll Shelby" he states the "X" is for eXperimental. In these they also quoted from in house memos at Shelby American about the "X" stands for eXperimental. I know AC Cars LTD noted the "X" stands for eXport, but we all know AC was a subcontractor to Shelby American. Shelby American is the manufacturer of record. So who do you believe?? Like I said a gray area.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

I went back and looked up "CSX" in some of my books about Shelby and Cobra's and in one on one interviews and in "as dictated by Carroll Shelby" he states the "X" is for eXperimental. In these they also quoted from in house memos at Shelby American about the "X" stands for eXperimental. I know AC Cars LTD noted the "X" stands for eXport, but we all know AC was a subcontractor to Shelby American. Shelby American is the manufacturer of record. So who do you believe?? Like I said a gray area.

Who to believe, SAAC, why, because they have the actual notes, importation paperwork, engineering records and more directly from Shelby Inc. They do not rely on the memory of one man but the actual factory records from that time period. SHEESH, let's face it, whatever you are relying on is incorrect and move on already.

Bill S.

PS: Might I suggest you pick up a correct copy of the Cobra registry as it will put things in greater (and accurate) detail on this and every other chassis to leave AC cars Ltd........

[A-Snake]

To be more specific, 'X' related to left hand drive cars while 'B' was used for right hand drive. Cobras sold to LHD countries would be COX or CSX. Those sold to RHD countries would be COB. Remember there were around 90 leaf spring and coil spring Cobras, of the total production of 998, that were sold by AC Cars directly to customers. These were prefixed by COX or COB.

[Thor maine]

What about the type 65 Super coupe CSX3027 ? Right hand drive. That would seem to be part of the gray area in the serial numbering system between Ac-Shelby American and Ford.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

What about the type 65 Super coupe CSX3027 ? Right hand drive. That would seem to be part of the gray area in the serial numbering system between Ac-Shelby American and Ford.

I believe you are referencing chassis CSB3054 which became the 427 coupe. The chassis for CSX3027 was scrapped in the mid '60s.

I take it you have not read the SAAC Registry?

[Thor maine]

I am reading "Shelby Cobra Fifty Years" by Colin Comer foreword by Carroll Shelby

[Thor maine]

Also " The Complete Book of Shelby Automobiles:Cobras, Mustangs,and Super Snakes". Plus " The Cobra Story"

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

I am reading "Shelby Cobra Fifty Years" by Colin Comer foreword by Carroll Shelby

I guess you are speaking of the caption to the photo on page 142. The CSX3027 is a typo, as is the typo on page 255 that reads CSX3054 instead of CSB3054.
I'm sure Colin will admit proof reading a book of this size can be a daunting task.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

I went back and looked up "CSX" in some of my books about Shelby and Cobra's and in one on one interviews and in "as dictated by Carroll Shelby" he states the "X" is for eXperimental. In these they also quoted from in house memos at Shelby American about the "X" stands for eXperimental. I know AC Cars LTD noted the "X" stands for eXport, but we all know AC was a subcontractor to Shelby American. Shelby American is the manufacturer of record. So who do you believe?? Like I said a gray area.

You said you had Colin's Book SHELBY, The complete book of Shelby Automobiles. Take a look at page 24, it explains the terminology of COB, COX

[Thor maine]

Just to get things started again. I have looked in my extensive library on Cobra's and they all agree that CSX 2000 stood for Carroll Shelby Experimental!!! ALL. So what are we left with, Shelby American always referred to a CSX Carroll Shelby Experimental Ford in all in office memos refrred as CSX as Carroll Sheby Experimental . So we are left AC ,who produced the frame and body (but had no part in making it a great race car or legendary street car)for CSX 2000 but after that just happened to fit there serial numbers????? Yeah right. AC wanted to keep there hand in. But even they farmed out the bodies in the 60's , So what are we left with SAAC, so when started in 1976 was a bunch of Hot Rodders who had no connection with Shelby-Ford-AC. And they do a great job, Shelby was gone and Ford wanted nothing to do with Cobra (gas guzzler, insurance nightmare). So what are we left with 2 out of 3. So CSX stands for Carroll Shelby Experimental Boom Done.

[LMH]

Oh brother! I smell baiting going on looking for an argument. Give it a rest.
Larry

[1ntCobra]

What about our fellow Cobra historian Wally Wyss? If you check out his book, you will find that CSX stands for Carroll Shelby Experimental and the first Cobra's serial number is CSX0001.

It is odd that there are a number of books that apparently mistakenly state that the first Cobra's serial number is CSX2000?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by LMH

Oh brother! I smell baiting going on looking for an argument. Give it a rest.
Larry

And you wonder why I walked away from this thread months ago

[london]

Originally Posted by Thor m[B

aine;1198998]Jus[/b]t to get things started again. I have looked in my extensive library on Cobra's and they all agree that CSX 2000 stood for Carroll Shelby Experimental!!! ALL. So what are we left with, Shelby American always referred to a CSX Carroll Shelby Experimental Ford in all in office memos refrred as CSX as Carroll Sheby Experimental . So we are left AC ,who produced the frame and body (but had no part in making it a great race car or legendary street car)for CSX 2000 but after that just happened to fit there serial numbers????? Yeah right. AC wanted to keep there hand in. But even they farmed out the bodies in the 60's , So what are we left with SAAC, so when started in 1976 was a bunch of Hot Rodders who had no connection with Shelby-Ford-AC. And they do a great job, Shelby was gone and Ford wanted nothing to do with Cobra (gas guzzler, insurance nightmare). So what are we left with 2 out of 3. So CSX stands for Carroll Shelby Experimental Boom Done.

The general rule for AC chassis numbers was that they used 'x' on their to signify cars for 'export' from the UK.

For example, the general rule was that an AC engined Ace sold in Britain would have had the prefix 'AE', whereas one exported 'AEX'.

Similarly a Bristol engined Ace sold in Britain would have had the prefix 'BE', whereas one exported 'BEX'

A Ford engined Ace 2.6 sold in Britain would have had the prefix 'RS', whereas one exported 'RSX'

This principle was continued for the Cobra, 'COB' for cars sold in the UK as complete vehicles, 'COX' for cars exported as complete vehicles outside the US, 'CSX' cars exported to Carroll Shelby under contract.

Here are a few photos of the AC Ace 2.6 built by AC in 1961 that, to use your own words, prove that AC 'had no part in making a legendary street car'









You might also wish to contact Alan Turner, now in his 90s who was the chief engineer of AC Cars in the 1960s. I'm sure he'll be amused to be told that he didn't carry out a significant part of the development work of the leaf sprung Cobras.

[DougD]

Thor Maine
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