Coyote 5.0L...thoughts?

[mvnaz]

Hello...Although I have been a fan of Cobras forever, I'm new to the idea of actually getting one now.

I'd love to hear opinions on which manufacturers are the top three (for example Shelby, SPF, BD?) I'd also love to hear peoples opinions on the Coyote 5.0L being used, instead of a traditional engine like the 427.

Does anyone have the Coyote installed in their Cobra currently? I'd love to hear from you!

[Mark IV]

Do a little searching here, there are several threads about the 5.0 Coyote in these cars. There are a couple of Superformances now sporting the 5.0 and it works well. The engine is really quite attractively priced but the installation and wiring work required eats up any "savings" so it costs on par with a good stroker 351 Windsor.

[fordracing65]

Spf, new Backdrafts and factory 5 all can accept the Coyote, csx will have to be modified to fit, I had a 5 litre mod in my spf which I just sold, if you want a cool calm cobra go the mod route, make it nasty with a supercharger, or 427 small or big block, either way you cant loose, its a cobra.

[blykins]

From an engine builder's standpoint, the Coyote is a neat little engine. The variable valve timing allows you to sorta have the best of both worlds....advanced cam timing for tooling around at low rpms....and retarded cam timing to help out with higher rpms. Decent horsepower from a very small displacement. Efficiency.

The Modular engines are all "neat". Factory blocks that can withstand horsepower levels approaching 1000hp, bulletproof bottom ends with some engines having forged cranks, H-beam rods, forged pistons, etc., from the factory.

However, there are two drawbacks...

1. Horsepower. Even with a 5.0 Coyote, horsepower levels are way below what you would see with a stroked Windsor, a healthy FE, or a 385 series big block.

2. Authenticity. The Modular stuff is about as far as you can get (in V8 form anyway) from the powerplant of an original car.

In a car that's already set up for a Mod motor, such as a Mustang, Ford GT, etc., it's kind of a no-brainer. However, for the amount of money that you have to pay for 1. a complete Coyote engine 2. all the junk that needs to go with it to control it 3. engine bay modifications to make it fit 4. an engine that's only making ~450hp (if you want more horsepower with a supercharger, that's more $$$$).....I don't see the benefits of it anywhere for a Cobra.

All Windsors, FE's, etc., can be built with EFI options. These days, if you want a 600hp naturally aspirated big block that will start on the first crank in 30 degree weather and will warm themselves up, then you can have that.

Personally, I'd rather have a stinky, rowdy engine for a Cobra....and if the customer so desired to have a little more refined stinkiness, then EFI is certainly a route to take.

[mvnaz]

Appreciate all the input. This will be a tuff call for me personally.

I love the original look and loppy sound of tradional blocks, no doubt that can't be replaced with the newer engines. However, I am not a mechanic so the reliability and new tech that comes with the Coyote option is very appealing.

I understand more HP & Tqe can be gained with the old school blocks naturally but at the same time, 420RWHP and 375RWTQ isn't to bad for a car that should tip the scales at 2300lbs.

I plan to track the car as well for typical track-day fun (not racing). I would think a lighter smoother engine with higher RPM would be lots of fun, as well as giving the Cobra better handling characteristics to toss around the track, no? Not sure how well the old school blocks would handle that type of use (or abuse) without having to wrench on them often...(Fair statement?)

Here's an ad I found with spec's, vid's, etc. This is what got me thinking in the first place. Looks and sounds pretty damn good.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Repli...item4600a7d3c5

[65SC]

another thread on th 5.0
SUPERCHARGED Ford Coyote 5.0

[WardL]

Someday I hope to trade in my Roush Cobra on a Coyote Cobra. I think the Coyote is a great engine. I am realizing I will probably never feel comfortable with the 518 HP Roush 427 and sure I'm not going to feel underpowered in a a 450 HP Coyote Cobra.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by WardL

Someday I hope to trade in my Roush Cobra on a Coyote Cobra. I think the Coyote is a great engine. I am realizing I will probably never feel comfortable with the 518 HP Roush 427 and sure I'm not going to feel underpowered in a a 450 HP Coyote Cobra.

Your car is set up for the swap as it sits, that coyote will drop right in, I bet you could sell your engine in there now for almost what a coyote swap would cost, it would be an even trade, go for it, I had a superformance with a mod in it, you will love it, get the 6 speed, it fits right in also, no modification needed.

[SpecOp1]

You would love the 5.0...I have that in BDR 1063....it is a lot of fun and has drawn a lot of attention on cruises and at shows. The performance is outstanding without the overtly loud noise and maint......there is so much more performance still inside the computer that will come forward in the future. If you want the feel some of the "ghost tunes" will allow for that. Possible future Hilborn stacks and other modifications are also in the future. As I have said I love the cammer engines and the feel. I was just looking outside of my personal box....best of luck in what you decide....Bill

[REAL 1]

The new 5.0 is a stellar engine. If you can get the 5.0 with track key technology you can have you cake and eat it too as far as ease of maintenence, track readiness and lopy sound. It will never match the torque or hp from even a good 351W which can be built up to crazy power levels.

In a Cobra, however, (and this is for me and my personal tastes and MHO only) the idea is to recreate what the beast was as close as possible. A new 5.0 takes you as far away from that as would installing the warp drive from the Millenum Falcon (almost ). I think the new 5.0 with track key technology would make for steller track car all things considered though but so would a good 351W or well built BB. I would hesitate to use an original 427SO for track work though. The expense of these blocks and relative rarity would make me hesitate.

But some guys like to build the car to suit their own tastes and likes. Thats what make the hobby interesting.

[blykins]

So what appeals to you guys the most about this engine? Is it just that it's something different?

It's always nice to know the viewpoints of engine customers...

[SpecOp1]

Am still having upload issues here...but here is pics from CR uploads....

Meet]Meet Wiley...BDR #1063 Wiley...BDR #1063

Hope they help your questions...Bill

[eschaider]

If you are going to put a ModMotor into a Cobra you will probably want to go supercharged. The naturally aspirated versions of the motor including the Coyote produce impressive power but at elevated rpms, because of their displacement. The only replacement for displacement is a blower.

A blown version of the engine would be better off not to use the Coyote as the starting point. The very same thing that gives the Coyote the great n/a performance - the variable valve timing - does nothing for the blown version of the engine and adds a level of unneeded complexity to the platform. The blown versions of the Coyote are using aftermarket toys to impede or eliminate the TiVCT feature of the Coyote.

Once you do not use the TiVCT cam phasing feature the earlier version of the engine has a more attractive profile for supercharging - including very importantly, in the supercharged blocks, thicker cylinder walls.

The blown version of the engine has about 90% of its peak torque right off idle. The torque curve tends to be table flat from about 1800 rpm all the way to redline! The blower puts a vast amount of power down extremely low in the rpm range which makes for a very nice cockpit driving experience.

A relatively mild form of the engine on 91 octane will produce a little over 600 rear wheel HP and about 580 ftlbs of torque at the tire. You can get flywheel figures by dividing by .85 which means the flywheel numbers would look like 700 hp and about 680 ft/lbs of torque. this comes pretty close to lightening in a bottle in one of these cars.

The other nice feature is light weight. You can get a fully dressed version of the engine less flywheel and transmission in at about 450 lbs which produces a very nimble package, especially when you consider the torque curve.

As with any of the higher powered versions of the Cobra your ability to get into trouble fast has been enhanced with this engine choice. In terms of reliability and performance it is an impressive kick in the pants.

The engine as I have just described it will cost between $12,000 and $15,000 depending on how crazy you want to get.


Ed


p.s. While it is not a traditional choice by any means it does come from the right gene pool in as much as it was the engine platform for the 2003/2004 Cobra's. The other attractive aspect is with polished valve covers the visual impact when you open the "bonnet" is stunning. The engine is actually the same size or a whisker bigger than the 427 SOHC. The visual WOW is pretty good.

[jhv48]

Coyote engine?

Might as well put a Chevy in it!

[B.M.B.C]

Im leaning towards Coyote, is there stroker cranks available yet. Would be nice to see a 427 stroker coyote. Definately needs a more visual look so a 8 stack efi would be awesome! HHR Hollywood HotRods have got 427 sohc cammer valve covers reasdy to fit a coyote......

[blykins]

You'll never see one stroked that far....

Bore and stroke is 92.2 x 92.7 mm....or 3.630" x 3.650".

These engines will not take a large overbore, not that you can get that far with just the bore anyway. But you would need to go past a 5" stroke to get to 427 cubes.

If you're wanting 427 cubes, 427 cammer valve covers, and stack injection, why not go with an EFI FE?

[fordracing65]

I had a 5 litre dohc cammer in my spf which I just sold, the engine is fine, its just so docile, like a cobra, met emmisions, and they had a love affair, I wanted a rowdy nasty cobra hence im on my way to an FE, also I would suggest building a motor for what and where you drive, the coyote is not a street motor its a track star, so it falls flat on the street, you have to wake it up with gears cause it need to rev so high to make real power, but for $6500 its a good engine, and if you supercharge just get a windsor and save all the extra weight and plumbing, not good for a cobra, good for a mustang that ford needs to meet strick emmision standards. But I guess to each is own.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by blykins

You'll never see one stroked that far....

Bore and stroke is 92.2 x 92.7 mm....or 3.630" x 3.650".

These engines will not take a large overbore, not that you can get that far with just the bore anyway. But you would need to go past a 5" stroke to get to 427 cubes.

If you're wanting 427 cubes, 427 cammer valve covers, and stack injection, why not go with an EFI FE?

My point exactly, get an FE or Winsdor and be done with it.

[blykins]

The power is not really there unless you go with a blower. If you go with a blower, then it may not be possible to take advantage of the variable cam timing, which is one of the benefits of the Coyote anyway.

The engine isn't too expensive, but the supporting equipment adds up.

There are certainly other options, even for a mild EFI engine that would be 100% streetable.

However, I can see where some guys just want to go a different route than the others, and that's certainly fine too.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by blykins

So what appeals to you guys the most about this engine? Is it just that it's something different?

It's always nice to know the viewpoints of engine customers...

Hi Brent,

Initially I was drawn to the Coyote b/c of these following reasons:

1) It is Emissions compliant with our governing authorities.
An FE isn't... thus I asked myself what's the next best?
At the moment, IMHO I'm left with Coyote or LS7 (maybe Toyota)... Unless you can advise of another V8?

2) Powerful enough, yet bullet proof, with heaps of potential should I need the "upgrade". I understand that you can get it to (& I'm no expert on this) 5.8lts quite comfortably, which again for 99% of driving is more than enough.

3) It's light weight, modern engine package, making it a balanced & theoretically well handling car, even a nun could drive it, and I'd get plenty more miles to the gallon.
It's nice if you can afford to wipe your a$$ with $100 dollar bills when you go to the toilet or gas station, but it's also nice knowing you don't have too or need too

4) It is a Ford and thus of the correct manufacturer - my logic is if you could justify a SBF Windsor, then the Coyote is just as "pertinent" & "viable" (unless its a 289 or FIA), others may differ.

5) Has plenty of available parts & a growing aftermarket following. Further it could thus be serviced by any monkey dealership if I so chose or if I encountered a tech problem that I couldn't or didn't have the time, or skill, or tools to resolve.

6) I'd be confident it wouldn't leak, pop a rod, chew a gasket, or other, even if I left it siting in the garage over winter for 6months. & would/should start first kick despite this.

7) The engine would outlast the car, many times over.

I guess in a word it can be summarized for me as "Evolution"


Now that is simply my version, & given free reign and any choice of engine an FE for a SC 427 it would be.
EFI or Carb'ed... Now I'm still wrestling with that one.
I can justify the billet suspension in a Kirkham as a "quality improvement", why not EFI?

Kindest regards,