Knock Off Spinner Tool

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, I'll keep a lookout for a friend, Roman, or countryman....

From what I heard Evander Holyfield may be ready to sell an ear. His $14 million mansion is in foreclosure.

[my427cobra]

John. Not age, good taste for using such a fine phrase.

Greg

[lovehamr]

You guys kill me.

I almost had Greg videoing busting his own ass.

Uh, I mean abusing his tool.

Uh, I mean using his tool.

Oh whatever, you guys killed it!

[my427cobra]

"The toolth? You can't handle the toolth!"

Apologies to Jack Nicklson

Greg

[Mick40]

Superformance Cobra, Daytona Coupe and GT40 Wheel Care - YouTube

[4SECA]

Monterey Ca is producing a very nice spinner tool. Very effective .
Take look.

[gjcomb]

4SECA -

What does the rest of the setup look like? The welding on the aluminum looks pretty good and I would assume this is going to be light, right? Can you provide some details on the spinner tool? I'm interested to see more of the product, since I haven't seen any good spinner tool that works good!! George

[4SECA]

The tools are being produced and a web site will be running next week. DPS Products
Steel and alum versions
525
send emails to cyldfil@aol.com

[4SECA]

The twin hammer design produces an impact shock wave ,that is very effective moving tght spinners.

[4SECA]

There is a long or short twin hammer option.
The longer hammer system creates more torque, but may not fit into the standard tool bag.

[gjcomb]

Your spinner tool looks good - available now? What's a selling price?

[rpatton3]

Years ago, my dad was removing a rear wheel from my sister's 1969 E-type roadster.

WE WERE HAVING NO LUCK WITH LEAD HAMMER.

I suggested that we put a long pipe over the "dog killer" knockoff and the other end on the driveway, put the car in reverse and let cluth out slowly.

The car came up off the suspension at little and the knockoff came loose.

We are in ARKANSAS and it worked!

[4SECA]

Originally Posted by gjcomb

Your spinner tool looks good - available now? What's a selling price?

The Spinner tool sells for $525. Contact DPS Products at cyldfil@aol.com

The tool is also is capable of applying high levels of impact and torque to the spinner.Best tool I have used to remove a spinner (stuck or otherwise).

[KevinW]

- thats a shame.
I was interested till you posted the price - a tool that costs more than a replacement wheel - doesnt make sense to me.

[DougD]

Let's see - $35 lead hammer, or $525 tool. Hmmmmm.

Does this company supply stuff to the US military or NASA? $1000 toilet seats? $500 hammers?

This entire thread baffles me. But then many things do.

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by DougD

Let's see - $35 lead hammer, or $525 tool. Hmmmmm.

Does this company supply stuff to the US military or NASA? $1000 toilet seats? $500 hammers?

This entire thread baffles me. But then many things do.

Was thinking the same. I'd seen a mechanic putting wheels on a vintage F1 car over the weekend at LimeRock. It looked to be a single 1" 1/4 hex. He threw socket on a 3' breaker bar and gave it two short one-handed tugs and on to the next.

[4SECA]

As I walked around Monterey during the vintage races I watched professional mechanics hammer off and on spinners . I spoke to a few of them . The general feeling was they were looking for a better way. We are talikng about hot cars right off the track . The guys were sweating pretty good by the time all wheels were changed .
That's not my idea of fun.

I want a better ,cheaper ,cooler and made in the USA answer.
Well 3 out of 4 isn't bad .
Price for made a in the USA product and all that means is not everybody.
DPS Products
cyldfil@aol.com

The Stone Age did't end because they ran out of stones
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[TButtrick]

I still say +300ft/lbs on these spinners is insane. Heres a video fo Dennis Olthoff installing a spinner on a fully loaded wheel. No way in hell that's even 100ft/lbs. I'm guessing 70ft/lbs is right for spinners.

[ItBites]

Tbuttrick,

Youre guessing wrong. Very wrong. Dangerously wrong. The applied preload in force due to torquing fasteners is inversely proportional to the mean pitch diameter of the threads. The equation according to the widely accepted Shigley is F = T/.2D The .2 varies with thread lube, etc..., but the T is torque applied (in inch-pounds), the D is the mean thread pitch diameter (in inches), and the F is the amount of preload or 'clamping' force in the bolted joint (in pounds).

Now, most cars have say qty 5 x 1/2 inch studs, each getting say 90 ft-lbs (1080 in-lb) of torque. If we use the .2 constant for now, you can see that each stud produces 10800 pounds of clamping force and with qty 5, you get a total of 54000 pounds of clamping force to keep the wheel on the spindle.

On the other hand if you have one set of threads in your knock-off that are (I dont have them to measure the diameter, but just say they are 1.25" diamteter) 1.25" diameter and you torque them to 70 ft-lb (840 in-lb), then you only get 3360 lb of clamping force to keep the wheel on the spindle. To get the same 54000 lb that a 5 lug pattern can produce you would need to torque a single 1.25 inch diameter thread to 1125 ft-lb.

This is somewhat modified by using anti-sieze on the knock-offs and not using ift on the 5-lug setup (these are installed dry). This changes the .2 constant as I mentioned earlier and actually reduces the applied clamp force from the 5-lug set-up and increases the clamping force from the knockoff. You can consult your Shigley for a discussion on this factor, but it does not go above .3, or below .1. If we use an absolute worst of .3 in the 5-lug, and a best of .1 in the knock-off, the knock-off torque to produce the same clamp force to hold the wheel in place is still 375 ft-lb.

Once you understand that the bigger diameter threads you have, the less clamping force you produce for a given applied torque, you see why the torques on a large knock-off nut are very high.

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by ItBites

Tbuttrick,

Youre guessing wrong. Very wrong. Dangerously wrong. The applied preload in force due to torquing fasteners is inversely proportional to the mean pitch diameter of the threads. The equation according to the widely accepted Shigley is F = T/.2D The .2 varies with thread lube, etc..., but the T is torque applied (in inch-pounds), the D is the mean thread pitch diameter (in inches), and the F is the amount of preload or 'clamping' force in the bolted joint (in pounds).

Now, most cars have say qty 5 x 1/2 inch studs, each getting say 90 ft-lbs (1080 in-lb) of torque. If we use the .2 constant for now, you can see that each stud produces 10800 pounds of clamping force and with qty 5, you get a total of 54000 pounds of clamping force to keep the wheel on the spindle.

On the other hand if you have one set of threads in your knock-off that are (I dont have them to measure the diameter, but just say they are 1.25" diamteter) 1.25" diameter and you torque them to 70 ft-lb (840 in-lb), then you only get 3360 lb of clamping force to keep the wheel on the spindle. To get the same 54000 lb that a 5 lug pattern can produce you would need to torque a single 1.25 inch diameter thread to 1125 ft-lb.

This is somewhat modified by using anti-sieze on the knock-offs and not using ift on the 5-lug setup (these are installed dry). This changes the .2 constant as I mentioned earlier and actually reduces the applied clamp force from the 5-lug set-up and increases the clamping force from the knockoff. You can consult your Shigley for a discussion on this factor, but it does not go above .3, or below .1. If we use an absolute worst of .3 in the 5-lug, and a best of .1 in the knock-off, the knock-off torque to produce the same clamp force to hold the wheel in place is still 375 ft-lb.

Once you understand that the bigger diameter threads you have, the less clamping force you produce for a given applied torque, you see why the torques on a large knock-off nut are very high.

OK, so either the video posted is dangerous to follow for advice or Dennis is actually tapping that spinner to 375ft./lbs. with his girlish like wrist motions while the wheel is fully loaded. (no offense Dennis)

I'm not a physicist but it sure seems that there are a whole lot more variables to Shmigley's theory than what has been stated.(if it applies at all) As an overly-exaggerated example, If your wheel mating surfaces (the hub and wheel sufaces) were 10 feet in diameter instead of 8 inches, the lateral force leveraging those two surfaces apart at their radius are going to be exponential and given the same size spinner at the same torque as the 8 inch mating surfaces, would certainly be an inadequate fastener for the 10 foot hub. Am I seeing this wrong?

Here's another way to look at it; Take two 10 foot 2x4s and nail them together in the center at the 5 foot mark. Now take two 8 inch 2x4s and nail them together in the center at the 4 inch mark with the same size nail. Now pry the ends apart to get your fingers in there and try to separate each example (lateral force). Which one would be easier? Your fingernails would fall off before you got the 8 inch 2x4 apart, yes?