Engine dies in Friday evening traffic...

[Dangerous Doug]

Cruising home from work on Friday evening, travelling up the infamous Hwy 17 from Silicon Valley toward the Santa Cruz coast. I get up the first hill just putting along and I'm next to the Lexington Reservoir when without warning my engine dies completely.

The traffic was pretty thick but I was able to coast my way to a wide area and stop. I've never run out of gas before, but my needle was a little low. Popped the air cleaner off and checked for fuel. All is well.

Hmm, electrical then? I ponder the situation a bit, then get my tool box out of the trunk and dig out my trusty DMM. I turn the key on and check the voltage on the + and - sides of the coil. 12 Volts, both are positive.

My coil has failed.

I've been down this road before, only with a Volvo. I let the engine cool a bit and once cool, fires right up. I'm able (stressfully, very few turn outs or wide spots in the road) to drive home over the hill, and then I go purchase a new MSD Blaster 2 coil at the local shop.

So, when I installed this engine I purposely had a friend machine a coil bracket for me which holds the coil straight up, as the Blaster 2 is oil filled. Anyone else have issues with the Blaster 2? This one only lasted 4 years, and almost left me stranded.

Glad I had that DMM in my trunk! I saw four other cars on the side of the road as I drove home, each of which the very tired looking drivers waiting for a tow truck!

DD

[vatdevil]

Where was the coil mounted?

[Mongoose930]

The same thing happened to me about a month ago. I purchased the MSD epoxy filled high vibration coil. We will how long it lasts: High Vibration Blaster Coil - 8222

[DAVID GAGNARD]

My MSD Blaster coil died on me also, maybe 8 or 9 years ago, so to get back on the road ASAP, I went to the local parts store and bought a "generic" coil,with the intent to order another MSD coil later on........Car ran just as good as with the MSD coil and I kept putting off ordering another MSD coil, still have not got around to replacing that 15 dollar generic parts store coil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it ain't broke, don't screw with it........

David

[Dangerous Doug]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

My MSD Blaster coil died on me also, maybe 8 or 9 years ago, so to get back on the road ASAP, I went to the local parts store and bought a "generic" coil,with the intent to order another MSD coil later on........Car ran just as good as with the MSD coil and I kept putting off ordering another MSD coil, still have not got around to replacing that 15 dollar generic parts store coil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it ain't broke, don't screw with it........

David

LOL Yes, of course, I suspected that I was paying $30 extra for the MSD label and chrome.

Perhaps I should put one of those generic $15 coils in my tool box...

DD

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Perhaps I should put one of those generic $15 coils in my tool box...

No, put it on your car and put the MSD coil in the tool box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think about it for a minute.......how many cars were made in the 60's/70's using a "generic" coil mounted on the intake or the front of one of the cylinder heads with all that vibration??????? millions and millions, and how many miles did they go?????? Back in the day, how often did one have to change out the factory installed coil??????

I dunno,but I had a 65 Custom 500 (stripped down Galaxie) 289, 2 barrel carb, 3 speed on the column, points ignition and all.Drove that car almost 100,000 miles, and they were mostly rough miles, changed the points and condensor many times, never changed the coil!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes the factory stuff is just as good as the aftermarket stuff and a lot less expensive....

David

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

Cruising home from work on Friday evening, travelling up the infamous Hwy 17 from Silicon Valley toward the Santa Cruz coast. I get up the first hill just putting along and I'm next to the Lexington Reservoir when without warning my engine dies completely.

The traffic was pretty thick but I was able to coast my way to a wide area and stop. I've never run out of gas before, but my needle was a little low. Popped the air cleaner off and checked for fuel. All is well.

Hmm, electrical then? I ponder the situation a bit, then get my tool box out of the trunk and dig out my trusty DMM. I turn the key on and check the voltage on the + and - sides of the coil. 12 Volts, both are positive.

My coil has failed.

I've been down this road before, only with a Volvo. I let the engine cool a bit and once cool, fires right up. I'm able (stressfully, very few turn outs or wide spots in the road) to drive home over the hill, and then I go purchase a new MSD Blaster 2 coil at the local shop.

So, when I installed this engine I purposely had a friend machine a coil bracket for me which holds the coil straight up, as the Blaster 2 is oil filled. Anyone else have issues with the Blaster 2? This one only lasted 4 years, and almost left me stranded.

Glad I had that DMM in my trunk! I saw four other cars on the side of the road as I drove home, each of which the very tired looking drivers waiting for a tow truck!

DD

Key on, engine off, you will have 12v both sides of the coil if the distributor "switch" is off.

[decooney]

My oil filled MSD Blaster 2 failed about five months ago. Was about nine years old I guess. Same thing, went dead, popped another coil in it and its fine.

[Dangerous Doug]

Originally Posted by vatdevil

Where was the coil mounted?

On the front of the left head (driver's side), as it usually would be. Again, the bracket is designed to hold the oil-filled coil straight up and down.

DD

[Dangerous Doug]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

Key on, engine off, you will have 12v both sides of the coil if the distributor "switch" is off.

I was going to call you on this one, but I thought it wise to go check, first.

You are correct.

I had a Volvo with a bad coil. Nobody could figure it out. I measured the voltage on + and - when it was running fine and then drove it around until it died on me. I checked the voltage at the + and - and found it different from earlier. Replaced the coil and the problem never returned.

I am convinced the coil was bad on my Cobra, as it acted the same way (drive around until the coil gets hot from the engine, it either shorts or opens causing the engine to die, the engine manages to cool after some time, the short disconnects or the open closes with the cooling, and off you go).

I wonder if it had a chance to cool from when I opened the hood until I could get the DMM out of the tool box in the trunk and make a measurement.

Okay, so my test was bogus, but the assessment correct.

So, for future reference: How do you properly test a coil in the event of a failure?

DD

[Jerry Clayton]

An oil filled coil should be mounted any way EXCEPT STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN-------if mounted vertical the oil will not cool the top and it will overheat and fail---tilt it 45* or lay on its side like Ford did and you will be fine.

[Mongoose930]

Per the MSD Tech Line for the Blaster 2 Coil:

The primary resistance, measured from the coil pos. stud and the coil neg. stud should be .7 Ohms. That is 7/10 of an ohm +/- 10%.

The secondary of the coil measured between coil pos. stud and the center tower (where the coil wire clips on) would read 4.7K Ohms. That is 4.7 thousand ohms (4,700 ohms) +/- 10 %.

[acmjg]

The other reason that the coils from the '60's lasted so long is they were not made in China like the junk we get today.

[Dangerous Doug]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

An oil filled coil should be mounted any way EXCEPT STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN-------if mounted vertical the oil will not cool the top and it will overheat and fail---tilt it 45* or lay on its side like Ford did and you will be fine.

This is the exact opposite of what I've heard on oil-filled coils. Not to question your experience, but can you site a source?

I'm going to dig around on the MSD site.

DD

[Dangerous Doug]

Copy/paste from the MSD Coil installation instructions:

Installation
Note: The Blaster Coil will mount in most factory canister coil mounts. MSD also offers a
Chrome Bracket, PN 8213. It is recommended to mount the coil in an upright position.

DD

[CobraDan]

The usual cause for a failing or failed coil is overheating. This is usually caused by spark plugs with too large a gap, which causes excessive KV to jump the gap. The bigger the gap, the bigger the jump, and the more power necessary to initiate.

A coil that is failing will cause a low-spark intensity. When this happens, the combustion is not efficient, and a driver will experience a drop in power. A weak coil will also have a more difficult time jumping the gap in the plugs and will also have the possibility of no spark in lean fuel conditions within the cylinders, resulting in an engine misfire. Rich conditions are conductive and promote ignition sequence, while lean conditions require more voltage to jump the gap. If the coil is too weak there will be no spark.

Certain coils are designed to operate at 6 volts rather than 12 volts. They are designed this way to prevent heat build-up in their particular situation. These coils require a ballast resister in line that drops the voltage.

A total coil failure will cause a no spark, no run condition. This can be diagnosed by pulling off one of the spark plug wires at the point at which it is attached to the spark plugs. In the event of a coil on plug situation, remove the two 10mm bolts and pull the coil off of the plug. Install a tester spark plug in either unit and lay it on a good ground on the engine. Have a helper attempt to start the engine and observe the plug for a good spark. If you do not see any spark, the coil is bad.

[Dangerous Doug]

Originally Posted by Mongoose930

Per the MSD Tech Line for the Blaster 2 Coil:

The primary resistance, measured from the coil pos. stud and the coil neg. stud should be .7 Ohms. That is 7/10 of an ohm +/- 10%.

The secondary of the coil measured between coil pos. stud and the center tower (where the coil wire clips on) would read 4.7K Ohms. That is 4.7 thousand ohms (4,700 ohms) +/- 10 %.

The difficulty I could see with this test is finding the failure in the coil before it cools enough to open the short (or close the open, whichever failure mechanism is occuring). Coils that I've had fail were intermittent failures, and the primary variable was heat.

After I had (incorrectly) determined the coil had failed, I shut the hood, put my DMM back in the tool box and put the toolbox onto my passenger floor, climbed in, buckled, and then the engine fired right up. Not much more than a few minutes, if that.

One site I looked at last night used a spark plug fed directly from the coil tower with a grounded base to see if there is enough spark. Sounds...shocking...

DD

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by acmjg

The other reason that the coils from the '60's lasted so long is they were not made in China like the junk we get today.

Very possible,I can go pull a big box full of coils off 60's/70's cars/trucks at a nearby junkyard, probably get them for a buck a piece, might just do that and clean them up and start selling them!!!!!!!!

On another note,I'm building a 331 for my street car, using a 1994 Mustang GT 302 block,these engines came with TRW forged flat top pistons and a Ford OEM double roller timing chain and hydraulic roller cam..
I ordered a new Comp Cams hydraulic roller cam and their double roller timing chain..Now the 94 GT motor was running in the junkyard when I bought it,unknown mileage as this engine had been transplanted in a 1988 Licoln Mark ??
The factory Ford USED timing chain set looks a lot better USED than the new Comp Cams set!!!!!!! I had to spend the better part of an hour working on the crank gear,it was not even close to going on the crank,new out of the box,looks like some half blind 10 year old kid did the machine work on it!!!the old ford one slid right on as it should have.......

Just becasue something is from an after market company and is labeled "High Performance" or something like that,doesn't mean it is better than an OEM part!!!!!!!!

David

[Jerry Clayton]

those 88 rollers were probably standard sae diminsions and the new stuff metric sized don't fit from china---If a chain won't roll evenly onto/off a gear, it is not properly matched for pitch or pitch diameter--------

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

those 88 rollers were probably standard sae diminsions and the new stuff metric sized don't fit from china---If a chain won't roll evenly onto/off a gear, it is not properly matched for pitch or pitch diameter--------

It was the crank gear that wouldn't even begin to go over the snout of the crank......looked like it was not machined thru and thru, there was a "lip" on the inner part of the gear......started with a small file working the lip out of it and then finished up with an old time wheel cylinder hone....
BTW: the factory Ford gear slipped right on with no problems, so I know it wasn't the crank...
BTW 2: when I put both gear sets side by side,Ray Charles could have seen the difference....when I took the Ford motor apart, I checked and the timing chain did have a very small amount of slack in the chain,I even considered re-using it,but being I'll have this engine in this car for years to come and hopefully thousands of miles,I decided in the grand scheme,the price of a new timing gear set was very small in the overall cost of the engine,that's why I ordered a new one from Comp Cams......Had this been a "strandard" overhaul of a stock engine, I would have re-used the timing set without hesitation....
Comparing the 2 side by side, the teeth on the Ford gear set are more "robust" and were better machined,showed very little to no wear on the gears/teeth.....whereas the Comp gear teeth are thinner and the teeth are almost pointed, actually looked like a timing gear set with 100,000 miles on it...
Kinda the same deal with the MSD/Duraspark distributors......I have a MSD distributor in my race car and one in the old engine of my street car,at least once a year I have to take them apart and clean out the rust and corrosion,easy to tell when it's time, as I rev the engine advance works fine, let off the gas and it takes forever to return if it does.....corrosion makes the centrifical advance stick all the time...
Now take the Ford Duraspark distributor,put in millions and millions of cars,ran for a gazillions of miles with no problems,NO corrosion!!!!!!!!! Why can't MSD and others make one that is as durable and dependable as the Ford unit?????
Especially when I can buy a reman Ford Duraspark distributor with lifetime warranty for under a 100 bucks....the one I'm using on this engine is for the older carbed models,non computer controlled with vacum advance, it retails for under 60 bucks as compared to $279.00 for a MSD unit that I know I'll have to work on at least once a year.......

David