Carroll Shelby

[saturnkk]

I am new to this forum as I just picked-up my first Cobra (Replica) a few weeks ago. Naturally, I have become very interested in learning more about the history, so if anyone has any good book or website information that they would like to pass along I'd really appreciate it!!

Also, I am not sure if this is a sensitive subject here but in reading Wikipedia, it had an entry saying that Shelby intentionally misrepresented some vehicles some time back with VIN's that were never produced. I think that they even went so far as to call it fraud? Does anyone know the story behind this? Was it really a greedy / fraudulent act by Shelby or was it something else?

Also, read in a book about how the 1967 427 model was misrepresented to buyers (they used 428 lesser hp engines). Anyone know the story behind this?!? This is all new to me and isn't really portraying Shelby in the best light. Usually there are 2 sides to a story so I was curious about it as well.

I am not looking to start a battle, just curiosity...


Thanks!

[jhv48]

Alright everybody, lock and load!

Seriously, he's asking a legitimate question. Before all the feathers get ruffled, let's post the facts.

[Karl Bebout]

Pretty sure that many of the "427" cars did not come with the more expensive 427 engine. CS was one "inventive" person, with a very strong drive to make Enzo eat some crow as well as make a buck, however he could.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by saturnkk

I am new to this forum as I just picked-up my first Cobra (Replica) a few weeks ago. Naturally, I have become very interested in learning more about the history, so if anyone has any good book or website information that they would like to pass along I'd really appreciate it!!

Also, I am not sure if this is a sensitive subject here but in reading Wikipedia, it had an entry saying that Shelby intentionally misrepresented some vehicles some time back with VIN's that were never produced. I think that they even went so far as to call it fraud? Does anyone know the story behind this? Was it really a greedy / fraudulent act by Shelby or was it something else?

Also, read in a book about how the 1967 427 model was misrepresented to buyers (they used 428 lesser hp engines). Anyone know the story behind this?!? This is all new to me and isn't really portraying Shelby in the best light. Usually there are 2 sides to a story so I was curious about it as well.

I am not looking to start a battle, just curiosity...


Thanks!

This one resource will answer all of your questions:

CLICK HERE


Bill S.

[REAL 1]

As a newbie there is much for you to learn. Start by buying a SAAC Registry and reading through it. There are also plenty of books on Shelby, Cobras etc..

Do some reading.

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

This one resource will answer all of your questions:

CLICK HERE


Bill S.

Thanks I saw this book and was thinking about picking up a copy. Are there any others or is this the best compodium?

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

As a newbie there is much for you to learn. Start by buying a SAAC Registry and reading through it. There are also plenty of books on Shelby, Cobras etc..

Do some reading.

Yep, plan to. Any other recommendations? I am a photography hobbiest as well and any books with vintage photos would be nice as well...

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by saturnkk

Thanks I saw this book and was thinking about picking up a copy. Are there any others or is this the best compodium?

There is no other publication out there that has more information on the Cobra than this one.



Bill S.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by saturnkk

Thanks I saw this book and was thinking about picking up a copy. Are there any others or is this the best compodium?

Patience grasshopper ;-)
The Registry will provide a fact check for the hearsay you have heard or read.
There are other good reference material out there but they should come after the Registry.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by saturnkk

Yep, plan to. Any other recommendations? I am a photography hobbiest as well and any books with vintage photos would be nice as well...

Shelby was known to be a snake oil salesman and may have occasionally stretched the truth a bit...

The SAAC registry is the most complete source of info and the reduced price copies on sale now makes the perfect holiday gift to yourself.

As for vintage photography, Dave Friedman was the official Shelby American photographer in the 1960's. He is the author and co-author of several books.

For some history with a good mix of vintage and recent photography, check out Trevor Legate's "COBRA The First 40 Years".

If you want to read an older book with a bunch of information that has turned out to be inaccurate over the last few decades, there is a book written by a member of this forum with the title... Oh wait, never mind.

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Shelby was known to be a snake oil salesman and may have occasionally stretched the truth a bit...

The SAAC registry is the most complete source of info and the reduced price copies on sale now makes the perfect holiday gift to yourself.

As for vintage photography, Dave Friedman was the official Shelby American photographer in the 1960's. He is the author and co-author of several books.

For some history with a good mix of vintage and recent photography, check out Trevor Legate's "COBRA The First 40 Years".

If you want to read an older book with a bunch of information that has turned out to be inaccurate over the last few decades, there is a book written by a member of this forum with the title... Oh wait, never mind.

Thank you for the info.

I must say that is very disappointing to hear that a man with all of Shelby's abilities and driving/engineering prowess would resort to such tactics. Almost makes it seem like an unseemly used car salesman...

[twobjshelbys]

Another book worth reading is "Go Like Hell: Ford, Ferrari, and Their Battle for Speed and Glory at Le Mans" by A.J. Baime. Only a little bit about the Cobra and Daytona Coupe since it is mostly about the Ford GT40 program. But it puts a lot of Shelby's motivations into perspective.

[twobjshelbys]

Another thing for you to do if you want to to see some of the cars is to visit the Shelby museums:

1. Shelby American Collection near Boulder, CO (first on my list since I live nearby and visit 3-4 times a year). Shelby American Museum. If you do visit be careful with your arrangements since it is only open Saturday from 10-4.
2. The Shelby collection at Miller Motorsports in Salt Lake City, UT.

[Note that 1 & 2 trade cars between them so if you're looking for a specific car - notably the Daytona Coupe and Miller's GT40's - they might be in Boulder]

3. The Shelby collection that is at Shelby American in Vegas. They give a tour daily and explain a lot about the Cobras but it also includes Mustangs and Dodges.

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Another book worth reading is "Go Like Hell: Ford, Ferrari, and Their Battle for Speed and Glory at Le Mans" by A.J. Baime. Only a little bit about the Cobra and Daytona Coupe since it is mostly about the Ford GT40 program. But it puts a lot of Shelby's motivations into perspective.

Thanks!

[Dangerous Doug]

Another good book, which I am reading currently, is "Carroll Shelby: The Authorized Biography" by Rinsey Mills. Mr. Mills is on this forum, and if you search Amazon for "Rinsey Mills" you'll find some other really great Cobra books that I've found informative.

Regarding the 428's in the original Cobras, I think they were about 10-20 hp less than the 427 SO. They were the "PI" or "Police Interceptor" engines used in cruisers, and were procurred due to the 427's becoming scarce. I personally don't see any ethical issues here.

On the "extra chassis" that Mr. Shelby found... well, I certainly don't know all the details but this move was of low ethical grade, and I'm sure a quite regretable moment in his life.

I admire Mr. Shelby for his accomplishments, but stop short of hero-worship. At 47, I've learned enough to know that any life---ANY life---examined close enough will yield moments of weakness and compromise and lapse ethics or morals to taint even the finest upstanding individual. Furthermore, I also know that if you could tap the deeper conscience of any individual you could see moments of sheer altruism that would stagger your imagination.

One thing I've seen on this forum is the sheer anger of Cobra replica owners when Mr. Shelby started to sue different Cobra replica manufacturers. He must have seen these other guys (FFR, SPF, et cetera) as eating his lunch, but he wanted to charge so heavily for his replicas of the original cars that they became unaffordable. Lots of bad blood there. I think this is where most of the venom comes from, as very few were actually affected by the chassis debacle back in '67.

DD

[blown871]

Very constructive feedback and respected forum.

I had a relative this past week phone and speak with C.S. daughter with the intent of buying a gift for me. ... (I was very disheartened to hear how my relative was treated on the phone)...

(you can remove this post if you wish as my intent is not to bash.. the legacy of a man who made history. However... we are all human... living a meaning fullfulling life to the best we can... and ; others not so much.....)

[Jerry Clayton]

There was an issue in 1967 with the ford 427 engines not meeting some new standards for smog or some other detail that caused Ford to remove them as an option in the Ford/Merc cars and go to the 7 liter(428) and CJ Cobra Jet----------

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

There was an issue in 1967 with the ford 427 engines not meeting some new standards for smog or some other detail that caused Ford to remove them as an option in the Ford/Merc cars and go to the 7 liter(428) and CJ Cobra Jet----------

So was it smog. they ran out of 427's, or just plain greed?

I do think it is very misleading and borderline unethical to sell a car known to have a 427 engine and named 427 Cobra with anything but a true 427...

If it truly was a government mandate due to smog I think that mitigates it somewhat but still...




And thanks everyone for the great recommendations and the feedback. I was/am still a bit surprised that a man so revered in his field had these ethical blemishes.

[tcrist]

Delete

[Dwight]

my list of books about Shelby

Shelby Cobra Fifty Years by Colin Comer

The Complete Book Of Shelby Automobiles, Shelby Cobras, Mustangs, and Super Snakes by Colin Comer

Ford GT 40 & GT Ultimate Portfolio 1964-2006 complied by R M Clarke

Shelby GT 40 by Dave Friedman

Cobra The Shelby American Original Archives 1962-1965 by Dave Friedman

Shelby Racer For The Street Mustang by Randy Leffingwell

Shelby Cobra Gold Portfolio 1962-1969 complied by R M Clarke

Go Like Hell by A.J. B.A.IME

Shelby The Man. The Cars. The Legend by Wallace A. Wyss

World Registry Of Cobras & GT 40s 4TH Edition

As you read the stories about Shelby you look for the author that can separate the facts from legend. That's hard for the authors to do with Carroll Shelby's legend.

I enjoy all the stories! Fact or Legend.

Shelby was a super salesman! That's one of the qualities that made him great. He was who he was and because of that he became a legend. Not a perfect man but no one is.

Long live the Legend

Dwight