Pre-oiler question

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Just because someone runs an engine for years and years and "doesn't have a problem" doesn't lend much data for experience. I had a pair of Federal Mogul bearings de-laminate in a BBC that I built. I don't know if a piece of trash passed through or what, but I had no indication that anything was wrong at all on the dyno. No increase in oil temperature, no decrease in oil pressure, nada. I didn't know anything until I checked the filter. My gut says that engine would probably have run for a long time and no one would have ever known the difference.

But, opinions are like.........blah blah blah.....

As I mentioned above, I had a Chevy 396, 427, 454 and a 540 built in the decades that I owned my '66 Corvette Convertible. And that car sat for LONG PERIODS. Each engine was sold and each engine was inspected and ultimately torn down because they were raced after my ownership. Everyone in my peer network always wanted my "old" engines because they knew my "old" engines were in primo condition. That's my proof.

[blykins]

Yeah, but Chevys don't count. I'm even going to remove my Chevy comments from the record. Ugh. Chevys.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Yeah, but Chevys don't count. I'm even going to remove my Chevy comments from the record. Ugh. Chevys.

OK then, I'd add "ditto" for a 351W that was built and installed in my old '65 Mustang Fastback many moons ago too. So there.

[blykins]

Ah man......

I guess I'll have to take your word for it since we don't have pictures of the bearings....

[scottj]

Pre-oilers were originally developed for aviation use on radial engines during WWII. The highest wear point is at the cam and lifters and because of the radial engine design a pre-oiler is able to flood those components and start-up wear is reduced. Pistons, rod bearings, and crank bearings do not experience start-up wear without a pre-oiler and therefore do not benefit from one. As far as evidence, the millitary collected scientific data and published the reports... but, I'm not going trying to research them.

Today, the aviation industry doesn't have scientific evidence for pre-oilers on modern engine designs. Although, by borrowing from the millitary reports on the radial design, the case is made that on engine designs where the cam is below the crank, wear would be reduced. What I find entertaining is, if you read aviation websites, you will find that those guys sound a lot like you guys.

Personally, I don't worry about start up and for a track application I use a drysump... which my Chevy came with from the factory.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

I guess I'll have to take your word for it since we don't have pictures of the bearings....

Any picture that I could take of a bearing would be worthless anyway, since I wouldn't know what one looks like even if it hit in the a$$.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by scottj

What I find entertaining is, if you read aviation websites, you will find that those guys sound a lot like you guys.

Uh, does that make us pilots then? Or maybe just as smart as pilots?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Uh, does that make us pilots then? Or maybe just as smart as pilots?

Uh-only if you leave the hangar once in a while...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Uh-only if you leave the hangar once in a while...

I "leave the hangar" nearly every day, almost immediately after taking my clothes from it.

[kevins2]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I "leave the hangar" nearly every day, almost immediately after taking my clothes from it.

[patrickt]

Both of you are morons.

[mdross1]

One thing is for certain we all have our opinions and we have to leave it at that.Pre oilers are to me a very good idea especially in a plain bearing engine.For many years have always wondered about the cam lobe lifter interface,starting dry even after the two surfaces got through that 20 minute 2000rpm seat in period safely.

Used to wonder all the time about valve springs in an engine that sits a lot,then all the seals consumed a lot of thought and the list goes on.Over the years those concerns slowly went away or I learned to live with them.

Now use what I feel is the best oil available and build all my own drive trains.Basically blueprinting everything followed by what I believe to be the best breakin procedures.
Bottom line, all this past experience gives me the confidence to put my opinion on paper or digitize it,because I know it works.

By no means do I take away from any of you other very talented and experienced builders we are all after the same things. Perfection!
Mike Ross

[lvhdude]

I wonder how effectve the Accusump (or similar) type system is on an engine that sits for months at a time. Since the oil is trapped by a soleniod valve (usually?) and seals on a piston backed by air (or nitrogen). How long is the reserve oil charge maintained? I can see the advantage in a raceing situation where there could be a momentary starvation issue, but as a preluber, the electric (aviation style) pump might be the hot ticket, no loss of available oil after long periods of inactivity. It would however be subject to the same oil starvation condition in a race application depending on pickup location. No? Maybe it depends on which issue is the major concern? Prelube or starvation. I was leaning toward the Accusump system 2qt for me, but now maybe the electric is best for me. Verrrryyy interesting........(knocks ashes from cig)

[AL427SBF]

... but now maybe the electric is best for me. Verrrryyy interesting........(knocks ashes from cig)

Ditto, scroll down to the vids ...
INFINITY Aerospace: Home Page www.InfinityAerospace.com, Infinity 1, landing gear, stick grips

[vector1]

if the ego wasn't so fearful and ignorant marketers would never make a dime.

has anybody ever figured out how to pre oil piston rings? does anybody know what wears out on engines? i have a 18-1 compression engine that sits for months at a time, will probably see 300k miles easily with minimal maintenance, and i would bet if tore down at that time the bearings would look fabulous. that hardest thing on engines is starting and the wear on piston rings. pretty soon your going to need a bandaid for a bandaid, for a bandaid.

[AL427SBF]

has anybody ever figured out how to pre oil piston rings?

that one is easy, pull the plugs and squirt some oil down there. as for the rest of that post, just a tad over the top lol

[Bill E]

Sure, if it has been sitting. Get a dish detergent plastic bottle and drill the lid out to fit a small diameter clear hose snugly. fill it half way with 50/50 premix gas & oil. Stick the hose in the vent hole of the carb. Do not over fill. I put a 20 thousandth carb jet in the end of the hose. Soon as I see gas's coming out the vent around the hose. I stop, then start the engine. Let it run un tell the smoke clears. There is also a marine product to winterize your boat that is sprayed down the carb at the final shut down that will solve the problem of condensation and rust in the cylinder and intake.

[Jerry Clayton]

what you really need around an engine that hasn't run for months-----no air cleaner, a flooded carb, oil fouled spark plugs----where's you fire extingisher?anything parked just outside the garage door?

[kevins2]

After reading through this thread, for a street driven car, if you put all the opinions in a blender you come out with the Accusump probably not necessary but certainly can't hurt and may provide some marginal benefit.

Rather than pre-oiling, what do you think of pre-heating the oil? My engine builder has recommended an oil pan heater - not the cheesy stick on kind - but one that installs inside the oil pan through a welded-on bung. Assuming I don't mind plugging the thing in 20 - 30 minutes before driving, and plug it into a cord with a timer in case my CRS kicks in and I plug it in and forget...it seems to me that having warm oil at start, although not pre-oiling, would provide good benefit. Also, since I plan to drive the car in cooler weather it seems this would be a good investment for about $225.

[Bill E]

I guess it could be easer on the oil pump drive shaft that a cold start up.