FE vs Coyote

[AL427SBF]

hum, interesting analogy, if tech = brains then about right

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by olddog

Remember it is what would make the OP happy, not what would make me or you happy!

Unless one is going against the Cobra's nature... which is abhorrent. He should consider the children's eyes, as they well up with tears, at the mere sight of a Coyote engine.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Unless one is going against the Cobra's nature... which is abhorrent. He should consider the children's eyes, as they well up with tears, at the mere sight of a Coyote engine.

I guess if that's who you hang with, the peer group whose opinions mean a lot to you, then absolutely let them dictate the motor for you, you'll be much happier being king on their hill

[olddog]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Unless one is going against the Cobra's nature... which is abhorrent. He should consider the children's eyes, as they well up with tears, at the mere sight of a Coyote engine.

I give you an "A" on the theatrics and emotional strings, but an "F" on reality.

Children's eyes light up when they see a Cobra. They are too young to have a clue as to what engine belongs in one.

The younger generations are few and far between to have any understanding of how an engine works. Many are lucky to know how to check the oil let alone change it. Cars are so reliable today they rarely need worked on. They are so complicated to work on they intimidate. Any power level can be purchased from the factory, so there is little need to build your own hot rod. To these generations they see no problem with a modern engine in a Cobra.

I'm afraid the old codger purest's are the only ones who cry about modern engines in a Cobra.

[vector1]

some of the younger ones who grew up on efi wouldn't know how to start a carb'd vehicle nor keep it running......

[AL427SBF]

I once saw patrickt in a group photo with his buds talking cobras, 5 of them at about 4'6" in the front, two on either side of patrickt back row ~4'11", then patrickt a full head taller in the middle, they all had their thumbs up.

[CobraEd]

Most of the kids these days do not even know what a Cobra is. They know it is a cool looking car and thats about it. They are all good at staring at their iPhones all day.


.

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by LesMurray

The biggest drawback I see with the Coyote is that most of the kit manufacturers haven't quite figured out how to make it fit. I hear stories on FFR about trying to get headers fitting, how the foot boxes are smaller, and that you basically need a shoehorn to get them in.

I saw a nice Backdraft Friday in San Marcos with a Coyote motor in it. A different look, but I thought it looked really nice in there. He had some nice covers on it. It ran good and sounded good.

Reliable and good mileage to boot.

Build it the way you want.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dallas_

... with a Coyote motor in it. A different look ... He had some nice covers on it.

Well, it's a shame he had to cover it up in order for it to look good.

[blykins]

Do Cobra owners worry about gas mileage? That was always the last thing in my mind when buying a weekend toy.

I think that if you broke down the costs of buying an FE or SBF vs the cost of a Coyote, supporting hardware, and the cost to fit the engine in the car, I really don't see the advantages. Another con is that when you get used to the 412hp, where do you go for an upgrade? Superchargers aren't cheap. You could change the cams, but the VVT engines have phasers which need to be worked around.

What happens when you need to work on it?

Don't get me wrong, I build Modular Fords too and I have respect for them in the right application...

[Great Asp]

Just for a cruiser and if the OP doesn't care about a more period correct looking engine, I'd say the Coyote motor. No carb, no issues.

If he gets tired of that, build a new Cobra.

E

[Luce]

You all can fame on, I have an EFI 427W. I prefer to say I built what Shelby WOULD have, if he built it in 2010. EFI lets the nasty cam be nasty, but not stall.

But one requirement for me would be the air goes in the top of the engine after entering the hood scoop! That's what the hood scoop is there for. If you put a coyote in there, you need to modify the scoop to be just a bulge, and add one of those funky triangle airplane scoops on a fender or something.

Some go replica, some go restomod. Just don't mix them too much.

[AL427SBF]

Luce, if you do a little research here you will find that the concept of the hood scoop on a cobra being a working ram air or forced induction design is a misnomer. At speed, a boundary layer of stagnant air sets up along the hood line that is 2-3" thick, your scoop isn't grabbing any air - but if your carb intake is sealed to the hood, then you can suck ambient air in versus the hotter under hood air and that will give you better combustion due to the denser/cooler air intake.

[Luce]

I/we now know that there's a slightly negative pressure there and GM later learned to pull it in from the cowl or leading edge of the hood for positive pressure.

The cool denser air is why I posted my homemade glass turkey pan, but my point is that it's a big part of the character of the car, and should be utilized as was intended. I'm just saying... with a coyote, it's just acting as a hot underhood air exhaust.

[olddog]

Bob Bondurant has been to the London show several times. He loves driving a Cobra out of the Chicago area that has a turbo charged Buick V6 and auto tranny. He has made comments about it several times.

I was talking with Bob Bondurant and his wife and joked about the OCS using a Chevy truck to pull the raffle car. He looked puzzled for a second then laughed and said he didn't get into brand loyalty feuds. He said he would drive anything that was fast.

There was a link in another thread where 4 or 5 of Shelby's guys were being interviewed. One of them said that Ken Miles (pretty sure it was Ken) said the ultimate Cobra would have been the 427 body with the 289 engine.

I do think the people who built and raced the Legend are not nearly as purest minded as the people who own a replica and worship the Legend.

I appreciate both view points. I draw the line with people who want to pass a law to force everyone to see it their way.

[olddog]

Bob Bondurant has been to the London show several times. He loves driving a Cobra out of the Chicago area that has a turbo charged Buick V6 and auto tranny. He has made comments about it several times.

I was talking with Bob Bondurant and his wife and joked about the OCS using a Chevy truck to pull the raffle car. He looked puzzled for a second then laughed and said he didn't get into brand loyalty feuds. He said he would drive anything that was fast.

There was a link in another thread where 4 or 5 of Shelby's guys were being interviewed. One of them claimed that Ken Miles (pretty sure it was Ken) said the ultimate Cobra would have been the 427 body with the 289 engine.

I do think the people who built and raced the Legend are not nearly as purest minded as the people who own a replica and worship the Legend.

I appreciate both view points. I draw the line with people who want to pass a law to force everyone to see it their way.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by blykins

Do Cobra owners worry about gas mileage? That was always the last thing in my mind when buying a weekend toy.

In this economy, hell yes it matters! At least to some of us.

Since I purchased the Cobra:
My company cut all overtime and cut awards - I lost $20K/yr income.
Gasoline has doubled. All my energy cost are up.
Insurance rates up 50%.
Food cost up 30%.
All my benefit costs went up.
The school divided the voters and got a 1% tax on earned income.

I used to have $1000 per month of expendable income to do as I pleased. I no longer can fund my IRA and I look for ways to cut my monthly bills by $20. I have absolutely let the Cobra sit because I didn't have the cash to fill up the tank.

All numbers is based on emotional feelings and are not to be relied on for any valid economic analysis.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Luce

I/we now know that there's a slightly negative pressure there and GM later learned to pull it in from the cowl or leading edge of the hood for positive pressure.

The cool denser air is why I posted my homemade glass turkey pan, but my point is that it's a big part of the character of the car, and should be utilized as was intended. I'm just saying... with a coyote, it's just acting as a hot underhood air exhaust.

I agree, and correct me if I'm wrong - but from what I've read even the cobra scoop location puts you in negative pressure land. That being said, then a big part of the character of the car is a turkey pan so the scoop becomes functional, otherwise any cobra not equipped with one is using the scoop as a hot underhood air exhaust.

For the history buffs, in terms of the cobra evolution, 289/FIA/427 - did the scoop versions have factory installed turkey pans from the beginning or did that follow later?

[REAL 1]

There are still kids that know what a Cobra is without being as familar with the details about it as we are. It is still one of the few cars that have transcended generations, however, most kids are more interested in the "rice burners" that are what they can afford and modify. No different than any previous generation.

The Coyote is a really cool peice and engine, however, it does not belong in a Cobra replica IMHO unless you (a) don't care about aesthetics/originality (b) your priority is track performance and reliability and efficiency it is a great choice.

While most "kids" don't care about originality there are still enough of us old codgers around that do care and/or appreciate it and so does the resale market. I don't cringe when I see a modern engine in a Cobra replica but I don't care for it as much as seeing an original FE motor.

Further, no matter what Cobra replica you have you of course can build it the way you want and the way it makes you happy.... however, at the end of the day the more aesthetically accurate the more your car will be worth and the more desirable it will be on resale and the more it will bring on re-sale. Period. At least for now.

On this issue a questoin is raised just how long will the Cobra and replicas of it be a desirable car as our generation fades and the upcoming generation comes up. My son has an Automotive site called Automotive Erotica and posts photos and videos of exotic cars, muscle cars and tuners along with some videos on Youtube. A tuner video he posted by far exceeded the number of views then vids of Cobras and muscle cars. Sign of things to come and the prelude to a fading heros such as the Cobra and others from the generation we grew up in????

[AL427SBF]

The problem with the aesthetics/originality argument is that either you are true to the legend or you arbitrarly decide what's important with originality and what is not. How many of you authentic replica owners with an FE are in fact at 427 CID with your motors putting out 425 HP? Not to mention running with 4" main chassis tubes, 4-speed top loader, 1st gen coil suspension and a 3:31 rear end?

The answer is very few if any.