For CSX 2000 and 3000 Series Cobra Owners Eyes Only

[LMH]

I don't really see what the discussion is. If your Cobra didn't originate at AC in England in the 60's, then it's a replica of those that did. Varying degree's of replication, yes with some replicating originals more than others but still a replica. The continuation cars are still replicas.
The OP's question is do owners of original cars get tired of being asked if their cars are kit's, replica's, copy's or whatever other term the low-information voter uses... I bet they do. If the low-information voter wasn't low-information, he (or she) wouldn't need to ask. I'm sure it happens as much as replica owners are who asked the same question. Just remember they're low-information!
Larry

[Cobra #3170]

This might help clear things up

How do you know if a Cobra is real?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

This might help clear things up

How do you know if a Cobra is real?

Oh. my...

"Waxer" (aka Real 1) is on that forum and thread as well...
...peddling the same ol' there as well.

If it doesn't rain this weekend you can bet I will be driving my genuine Cobra thats an exact replica of the original series

well... almost exact.

and, almost genuine.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

Evan your replies remind me of this...

Bill Clinton It Depends on what the meaning of the word is is - YouTube

By golly, me thinks you've come upon the one truth.

It don't matter what the hell you call it so long as it feels good.

[mrmustang]

Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I present the following statement as evidence that Evan H. has presented in writing on 05-10-2013 at 08:02 AM (reference post #41) that his CSX4000 series is indeed a "replica" of an original Cobra.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

If it doesn't rain this weekend you can bet I will be driving my genuine Cobra thats an exact replica of the original series LOL

Bill S.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by computerworks

I am equally amazed that you continue to spew that lame explanation.

As stated so many times before, when a 'civilian' asks if it is 'real' or 'original'...we all know exactly what they mean.

Unless you own a CSX2000 or 3000 car, any answer other than "no..." is a self serving line of BS.

This is so confusing. We have lawyers, the cobra registrar, at least one cobra book author, long time saac members all discussing what's real again. The registry has all of those pages to read, which will take forever. Maybe I should just ask my magic 8 ball? Or better yet, I'll ask my tea cup...

[REAL 1]

Well since I am the only one here that participates in more than one forum at least you have reference to what I said on the Ford GT forum which is completely consistent to what I have said here in the past, now and what SAAC is saying in there World Registry. At least the Ford GT forum guys "got it". Sad, that in a site dedicated to "Cobras" many are still lost in the wilderness.

Also, please note, I did not start this thread or the first to participate. Please note I did not start the tread on the Ford GT Forum. Thank you.

Bill S.: You want to use a statement in a court of law it's best to make sure you use it in context since your adversary will be given a wide berth in demonstrating you took it out of context if that what you did....and thats what you did. Not cricket. All I will say is that for those interested enough you need to read my other posts even post #41 that you conveniently failed to include the rest of ...but I would also point to my post #27 and #29. "Two Shelbys" hit the nail on the head in his post #16. Not hard stuff guys. Really.

Yes, according to the formal definition one could argue that every Cobra after first production 2000 and 3000 Cobra is a replica of the the "original" and yes technically the continuation cars and the completion cars are all "technically" replicas of the original Cobras produced by Shelby.

Again, I can read the World Registry for you nor obviously can I help any of you out of the fog as to what the World Registry has said and what I have been saying. All I can do when the subject comes up is continue to try to point to the light for the poor souls who continue to be lost.

CSX3183 gets it.

Patrickt: I am truly sorry. Alas I have failed you. Lets simplify. Get your World Registry turn to page 30. Read slowly and (out loud if it helps). PM me any questions you continue to have so as to avoid embarrassment of asking them in public. Will scan and email answers with pictures in Crayon to help move this along)

Istock: No it's really not difficult. If asked if my Cobra is an original my answer is "No, it's a Continuation series Shelby Cobra". If they want to talk more and I have time I happily talk more. Some know what a continuation series Cobra is some don't.

If asked it is "real" my answer is emphatically "yes" with the balance the same as above.

I am not going to devalue or debase my Cobra in my answer to the above questions to give the impression that my Continuation Series Cobra is not a real Cobra when it is and accepted and acknowledged by SAAC.

To make it simple...we "non-civilians" know what the technical meaning of "replica" is.

Civilians use and equate and commonly understand "replica" to mean a fake.

As such I make sure when answering the question to the "civilian" he clearly understands he is not looking a fake but a real Cobra from Shelby. I know some owners of originals don't like this but the facts on the ground have changed boys.

Easy peezy. Next...

[REAL 1]

I want that cup!!!! Cool.

Ned: Brian Angliss clearly acknowledged AC built and sold COB and COX Cobras in europe under license from Shelby in the resolution of the "Completion" issue and further that SAI was the manufacturer of record for the original series of Cobras. As the subsequent owner of AC and former adversary of Shelby in the legal arena surrounding the Completion series issues. That is clearly a binding admission. However, when he admitted this in 1993 we already knew this.

[computerworks]

...If asked it is "real" my answer it "yes"

And, in the context of what the layman is asking, you are lying to him.

You will never understand that.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by computerworks

And, in the context of what the layman is asking, you are lying to him.

You will never understand that.

Ron, he prefers the verbal and written joust to keep his skills honed with his constant play on words. as an attorney, he will never admit to it. After all these years of listening to the same regurgitation of the half truth from his mouth and keyboard, you know this as well as I do.



Bill S.

PS: Evan, do you deny posting what was quoted above, yes, or no?

[ERA Chas]

Evan,
You once took a hiatus from this forum for a period of time. The cause was this same intransigence and the desire to change the thinking of the general membership here (which includes SAAC board members and CSX owners who may have actually contributed to the Registry) on this issue.

Your arguments have obviously gained no further traction in this latest rehash.

I, in NO way, am suggesting you leave the forum again. I simply ask that you agree to disagree with the widely prevalent understanding, since we all know your interpretation. Thus your point is made and your position on the provenance of your car is intact and does not need to be restated into a firestorm of opposition.

I admire your car (and NOT because it is a CSX) too much to see you go away and deprive us of your Cobra-owning contributions and experience. I'd much rather read your posts on your car's performance, carb setup, brake pads, gear ratios and any technical, functional aspect of your car.

Not how you think the world should view it's lineage. Which is virtually all you post about.

It should be all about the cars here and not the political hierarchy of the various 'classes' of original / real / fake Cobras. It always degenerates into the 'bigger dick' syndrome which by now is tedious and benefits no one's understanding and enjoyment of the cars themselves.

Jus' sayin'...

[Tutosnake]

Well, my car's top loader is out for repair... 2nd. and 3rd. gears are bad...

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Ron, that makes it tough for the folks with COB and COX cars from the 60's. But what the heck, no one other than CSX 2 and CSX 3 owners were supposed to be reading any of this thread in the first place, yet it has come to my attention that others must have been doing so. How should they be properly punished?

Darn, I just wanted to see how many "original" owners were on this site. lol Didn't really want it to get into a semantics question at all. It's in my home in Cali but I have an original registry with hundreds of my notations and remarks in it. If you have one and used it frequently than it's like mine with pages out and binding shot. I probably haven't picked it up since 1990. I guess there is updated info in the newer registry that has newer info like the continuation series in it.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

As a long time member of SAAC (30+ years),


Bill S.

I think you have me beat. I didn't keep up membership because of other interests and as life rolls by things change. However, I wouldn't have time to devote to other marquees if only spent time on Shelby. I grew up in Greenwich and my grandfather was a good friend/customer with Luigi Chinetti(Shelby too).

I think it was around 1985 I went to the SAAC Convention in LA/ Anaheim area. Lot's of great cars there.

I have a good and true story for you. It must have been 2 or 3 years before this california SAAC convention that I attended when I first read about a Cobra convention in NJ. It was about a week before and had no info on anything other than a small ad. I told my buddy about it and he suggested we drive up to Ridgefield, CT (the address in the ad) and get all the info. No problem since we lived in Greenwich we drove to Ridgefield, found the house and walked up to the door. Well the person answered didn't have the info and was led to believe I had the wrong place. This certainly was not a car guy. It was all private homes and I really don't remember what the house looked like but I thnk it had a semi-detached garage and walking past I noticed a 1965 R-type GT 350 in the garage. I was so pissed I missed that convention!

[computerworks]

July 4-6 - SAAC-38 ... Autoclub Speedway, Fontana (the old California Speedway).

Be there!

[LMH]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

Darn, I just wanted to see how many "original" owners were on this site. lol Didn't really want it to get into a semantics question at all. It's in my home in Cali but I have an original registry with hundreds of my notations and remarks in it. If you have one and used it frequently than it's like mine with pages out and binding shot. I probably haven't picked it up since 1990. I guess there is updated info in the newer registry that has newer info like the continuation series in it.




I think you have me beat. I didn't keep up membership because of other interests and as life rolls by things change. However, I wouldn't have time to devote to other marquees if only spent time on Shelby. I grew up in Greenwich and my grandfather was a good friend/customer with Luigi Chinetti(Shelby too).

I think it was around 1985 I went to the SAAC Convention in LA/ Anaheim area. Lot's of great cars there.

I have a good and true story for you. It must have been 2 or 3 years before this california SAAC convention that I attended when I first read about a Cobra convention in NJ. It was about a week before and had no info on anything other than a small ad. I told my buddy about it and he suggested we drive up to Ridgefield, CT (the address in the ad) and get all the info. No problem since we lived in Greenwich we drove to Ridgefield, found the house and walked up to the door. Well the person answered didn't have the info and was led to believe I had the wrong place. This certainly was not a car guy. It was all private homes and I really don't remember what the house looked like but I thnk it had a semi-detached garage and walking past I noticed a 1965 R-type GT 350 in the garage. I was so pissed I missed that convention!

Do you have any old Cobra photo's you could share with us? They're always cool to look at!
Larry

[OnyxRider]

Yeah somewheres from that mid 80's convention. I'm still looking for the disc with my old flip-top pics to post(my pics not my flip-top). I'm sure the SAAC guys have more than I do.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by computerworks

And, in the context of what the layman is asking, you are lying to him.

You will never understand that.

Gee Ron, you again conveniently left off the balance of what I tell people from your "quote" and take only the part of what I've said that suits your needs and then accuse me of lying to people nor am I misleading them. Candidly, your statement bull@$#%.

Its your organization that provided the definitions. Those are what I go with. We are allowed to rely on those definitions aren't we? I guess if you don't like the definitions then talk to your organization but don't call me a liar. In fact, you would have me tell the laymen something inaccurate by telling them "no, its not real it's a replica" when the Registry clearly defines it as otherwise.

Shouldn't the laymen ('civilians, right?) be entitled to learn about these cars or should my answers and other Continuation owners answers just go on to to be self deprecating so perpetuate their ignorance on the subject? Isn't that part of what SAAC's mission is to educate and preserve? Why, SAAC even publishes and sells the World Registry to the public does it not? It even sells memberships and invites memberships from Cobra owners and non owners and "civilians" alike. Does it not? The World Registry sets the standards does it not? Gee, the Registry itself seems to say so. Is SAAC lying?

Lets take a further look at what your clubs World Registry states. Page 6 under "Introduction:
[/u] "This book is more than just an attempt to keep track of the individual history, current whereabouts and last known owner of each and every car. As a totality [u] [i]T DEF[i]NES WHAT CO[b]RAS AND FORD GTs ARE AND SPEC[i]CALLY [i]DENT[i]F[i]ES WH[i]CH ONES F[i]T THAT DEF[i]N[i]T[i]ON. [i]N TH[i]S SENSE, THE REG[i]STRY SERVES TO PROTECT THE LEGACY THAT WAS CREATED [b]Y THESE CARS [b]Y PROV[i]D[i]NG SPEC[i]F[i]CS WHC[i]H CAN [b]E [u]SED AS A YARDST[i]CK AGA[i]NST WH[i]CH ANY CARS P[u]RPORT[i]NG TO [b]E GEN[u][i]NE CAN [b]E MEAS[u]RED...

I have two cars that are "registered" in the registry and had to be submitted through a registrar for that car. Had to fill out paper work and everything. Even had a deadline to submit. You mean you guys registered non genuine fake Cobras and are keeping track of those too?

At page 27 the World Registry clearly states:

THE SECOND WHY THE N[u]M[b]ER OF FAKE CO[b]RAS HAS [b]EEN GREATLY RED[u]CED [i]S THAT SHEL[b]Y [i]S NOW OFFER[i]NG A NEW GENERAT[i]ON OF CO[b]RA ROADSTERS. NO ONE [i]S SER[i]O[u]SLY ATTEMPT[i]NG TO CONV[i]NCE ANYONE THAT THESE CARS ARE "OR[i]G[i]NAL (THAT [i]NCL[u]DES ME TOO)...THAT [i]S TO SAY THEY ARE THE SAME CARS [b][u][i]LT AND SOLD [b]ETWEEN 1962 AND 1968. [b][u]T THEY ARE VERY CLOSE MECHAN[i]CALLY AND COSMET[i]CALLY, AND THEY ARE [b][u][i]L[i]T [b]Y CARROLL SHEL[b]Y. SO WH[i]LE NOT "OR[i]G[i]NAL" THEY ARE A[u]THENTC.

The definitions clearly define CSX4000 series cars as current production Cobras built by Shelby. It's right there in black and white. I can even look up the picture of my authentic Cobra in the registry and read about it. My Ford GT too? By the way are they fakes or replicas of the original GT? Why are they in there????

So you see I am not lying when I answer the "is it real" or "is it original" question as I said I answer. It seems, however, that many here for their own self interested reasons would like me and other Continuation owners to misstate the current facts and truth and continue to perpetuate the confusion and ignorance of those unfortunate civilians or perhaps those that don't like my answer simply can't comprehend what the Registry so clearly says. It's not me that doesn't get it.
*

Bill: Yes I said what I wrote obviously, however, do me a favor and yourself a favor try using quotes in context if you are going to use them. Having it pointed out that you used a statement out of context or without full explanation makes you look a little silly.

ERAChas: Thanks for your comments. Appreciate it.
Had I not been accused of "lying" to "lay" people on this subject I likely would not have even bothered to continue to waste my breath here on this issue. Really. However, my dander was raised by the accusation but now have taken a deep breath and remembered, hey it's Club Cobra, nothing new. Again, even the guys on the GT Forum "got it".

Your organization and a world recognized authority says my Cobra is an authentic Cobra and I am not allowed to say it is in the manner I answer the question or I am lying????? What a crock. LOL

All I'll say in closing to those still refusing to recognize the Continuation series as a authentic Cobra read the World Registry and weep.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

[u] [i]T DEF[i]NES WHAT CO[b]RAS AND FORD GTs ARE AND SPEC[i]CALLY [i]DENT[i]F[i]ES WH[i]CH ONES F[i]T THAT DEF[i]N[i]T[i]ON. [i]N TH[i]S SENSE, THE REG[i]STRY SERVES TO PROTECT THE LEGACY THAT WAS CREATED [b]Y THESE CARS [b]Y PROV[i]D[i]NG SPEC[i]F[i]CS WHC[i]H CAN [b]E [u]SED AS A YARDST[i]CK AGA[i]NST WH[i]CH ANY CARS P[u]RPORT[i]NG TO [b]E GEN[u][i]NE CAN [b]E MEAS[u]RED...

THE SECOND WHY THE N[u]M[b]ER OF FAKE CO[b]RAS HAS [b]EEN GREATLY RED[u]CED [i]S THAT SHEL[b]Y [i]S NOW OFFER[i]NG A NEW GENERAT[i]ON OF CO[b]RA ROADSTERS. NO ONE [i]S SER[i]O[u]SLY ATTEMPT[i]NG TO CONV[i]NCE ANYONE THAT THESE CARS ARE "OR[i]G[i]NAL (THAT [i]NCL[u]DES ME TOO)...THAT [i]S TO SAY THEY ARE THE SAME CARS [b][u][i]LT AND SOLD [b]ETWEEN 1962 AND 1968. [b][u]T THEY ARE VERY CLOSE MECHAN[i]CALLY AND COSMET[i]CALLY, AND THEY ARE [b][u][i]L[i]T [b]Y CARROLL SHEL[b]Y. SO WH[i]LE NOT "OR[i]G[i]NAL" THEY ARE A[u]THENC.

Why did you do that? I had a headache before you even started writing, but that technique made it absolutely splitting.

EDIT - Unless that post looked normal on everyone else's screen but mine and doesn't have brackets scattered throughout the entire post.

[CobraEd]

These posts from "you know who" are the epitome of insecurity. Do we really need to see all this. Lets just shut the whole thing down.


.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

All I'll say in closing to those still refusing to recognize the Continuation series as a authentic Cobra read the World Registry and weep.

I addressed you directly in post #91 of this thread and I'd like a direct response from you. I don't like being talked past.
At least two others agreed that I presented a sensible alternative to this endless and destructive carping and semantics exercise.
What is your feeling about my suggestion Evan?