reasons for a side oiler Vs a center oiler

[REAL 1]

I stand corrected. It took me some time going through all my books from many different authors including the Registry and many different magizine articles in a compendium book on Cobras and all to their discredit do not even mention this detail as to center oiler vs. sideoiler with regard to the 427. The only book that discussed the fact that the 427s came in two varieties in the Cobra was Rinsey Mills book on The Essential AC Cobra other then the Colin Comer book.

Very interesting detail.

It is clear that all Comp and SC's had the side oiler. My understanding is that the Comp 427 had high rise aluminum heads and the SC had the medium rise cast iron heads.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CSX3183

Without looking, and by going on the last post, 3306 to 3360, are street cars, single 4, 410 HP, med riser side oilers.

Competition cars start at 3001 on up to I believe 3054 or there abouts.

Well let's not forget that 3001 had a high performance 289 small block with a c-4 automatic transmission (and had a slightly different body than the typical 427 competition or S/C).

So if you want to drop a small block in your big block replica there is a historical precedent.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Well let's not forget that 3001 had a high performance 289 small block with a c-4 automatic transmission (and had a slightly different body than the typical 427 competition or S/C).

So if you want to drop a small block in your big block replica there is a historical precedent.

But that doesn't make it right and we would appropriately ostracize you.

[REAL 1]

3001 was a prototype. There is no precedent if you are looking at production 427s.

BTW since this detail about 427s is now being discuss and it is clear that there was a significant difference between 427 CO and the 427 SO in durability and performance and we know that when the "civilian" asks the original series CSX 3000 owner if that is a "real" 427 isn't the owner with a CO lying to the "civilian" when he say "yes" when we all know that they are asking if is the vaunted Side Oiler?

Hmmmm

[DanEC]

I suspect that 97% of "civilians" would not know what a side oiler is, anymore than they would a MKIV porcipine-head chevy motor.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

3001 was a prototype. There is no precedent if you are looking at production 427s.

BTW since this detail about 427s is now being discuss and it is clear that there was a significant difference between 427 CO and the 427 SO in durability and performance and we know that when the "civilian" asks the original series CSX 3000 owner if that is a "real" 427 isn't the owner with a CO lying to the "civilian" when he say "yes" when we all know that they are asking if is the vaunted Side Oiler?

Hmmmm

3001 was not exactly a "prototype", it was a "chassis" sent to Detroit Styling and made into the "Bordinat Cobra".

[rpatton3]

The mighty 390 and 428 did not even have cross bolted main bearings. The state troopers never had any trouble. If you have to have a SO, get a POND, GENESIS, DOVE OR SHELBY block.

Nothing sadder than seeing an original SO in a pickup truck. 1963 and 1964 Center Oilers did great in NASCAR.

[CSX3183]

Now there's some ass backward logic!

I guess then that the 427's that finished 1-2-3 at Daytona in 1963, weren't really 427's, since they weren't S.O.'s.

A 427 is a 427, unless of course you've been smoking something, then who knows what you're thinking?

Originally Posted by REAL 1

3001 was a prototype. There is no precedent if you are looking at production 427s.

BTW since this detail about 427s is now being discuss and it is clear that there was a significant difference between 427 CO and the 427 SO in durability and performance and we know that when the "civilian" asks the original series CSX 3000 owner if that is a "real" 427 isn't the owner with a CO lying to the "civilian" when he say "yes" when we all know that they are asking if is the vaunted Side Oiler?

Hmmmm

[55312]

Just a little history on those unreliable 427 Center Oilers:

In 1963 the 427 Galaxies dominated NASCAR. Tiny Lund won the first and biggest race of the year, the Daytona 500, with 427's finishing 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th. Ford won 23 races to Plymouth's 19. The Plymouths earned all their victories on the short tracks while Ford dominated the Super Speedways. Chevrolet had 8 wins and Pontiac had 4.

In 1964 Ford had their best season ever with 30 wins. Dodge was second with 14 while Plymouth had 12. If you add the 5 wins that Mercury had, the 427 had a total of 35 NASCAR Grand National wins for the 1964 season. Fred Lorenzen won the Atlanta 500 and proceeded to beat Dodges and Plymouths, which were using 426 Hemi engines contrary to stated NASCAR rules, in 6 of the next 7 races. Ford was using the high-riser intake and matching heads, which were allowed by NASCAR for one season (1964).

Just think how many races they would have won in 1964 if the engines had been durable and reliable...........

BTW Ned Jarret won the 1965 Nascar crown with the poorly designed medium riser intake and heads too.

[DanEC]

Thanks guys - I almost commented that a bunch of 63 and 64 Galaxie 427 owners would be disappointed to hear how much their motors lacked in performance and durability but you said it much better.

[olddog]

Saying the SO is better suited to high performance use, is not saying that the CO is bad. It just means the SO is a little bit better. Just like the high risers heads are easier to make power with than a low riser head. It doesn't mean that good power cannot be made with a low riser head. It just takes more work and knowledge.

You can bet the race teams put a lot of work into the CO to make it better.

You can also bet that Ford didn't just build the SO for something to do. They had a reason!

[REAL 1]

Never said the CO wasn't reliable. However, you cant just say a "427 is a 427".
The are significant differences between the CO and the SO both in design, durability and value and desirability. To deny this fact you have to be "smoking" something . The number of NASCAR races won in '63 or '64 is irrelevant to the Cobra discussion.

It was the SO that was put into comp 427s and SCs. Site me one comp 427 or SC or GT40 MK II of IV that raced with a CO. They could have used CO but didn't and they didn't for good reason.

The SO is the brass ring for BB 427s unless you are restorinng an orig street car that had a CO and you want the car as it was originally built.

Very simply the line of guys Willing to trade an SO for a CO is pretty short all things equal.

And yes, when guys who have even modest knowledge about Cobras ask if "it's a 427" they likely are asking if its a real SO. That's been my experience over the past 16 years.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

3001 was not exactly a "prototype", it was a "chassis" sent to Detroit Styling and made into the "Bordinat Cobra".

Really? CSX3001 is precedent for a SB in a BB chassis? not in my book.

[PLDRIVE]

DanEC U are giving waaaaaaaay too much credit to the public (97%). I would estimate 99.9% would not know the difference.

[mdross1]

One thing is for certain reading all these posts some of you are very dedicated to the differences in these FE 427's.That's a good thing a lot us us have our favorites it should be this way.Bottom line is what works for some may not work for others.In all my years working with hot rodders have found that some border on fanatical when it comes to their dedication to a certain product.Have to say I was for a while with BB Chev's till I started getting serious about the Blue Oval over 20 yrs ago.Now realize all manufactors have their strengths and weaknesses.My dedication lies now in getting all that is possible from what I presently own.
Keep in mind there will always be someone out there that is just a little quicker or faster no matter what the prefix of the power plant is.That alone is the equalizer.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Really? CSX3001 is precedent for a SB in a BB chassis? not in my book.

Yeah, why not. And if you're ever inclined to use skinny white wall tires on wire wheels or want to add hidden pop-up headlights to your BB replica, there is a precedent for that too.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

3001 was not exactly a "prototype", it was a "chassis" sent to Detroit Styling and made into the "Bordinat Cobra".

Originally Posted by PLDRIVE

DanEC U are giving waaaaaaaay too much credit to the public (97%). I would estimate 99.9% would not know the difference.

True as to the general public at large but not as to the general car enthusiast with a basic working knowledge about Cobras. The vast majority of press articles and books highlighted the use of the 427SO and 428 and it is this quotient that they are working from. To deny this is to deny there is a nose on your face.

[DanEC]

At the risk of coming out of hiding to further feed this fracus I respectively would have to disagree.

Most references, magazines, and books that I read about the 427 series Cobras just use generic "427" and "428" terminlogy. There are certainly articles that go into some detail on the motors but usually just to differentiate between the more pedestrian 428 and the race-heritage 427 motors. I see as many, if not more, references to cross-bolted 427 engines than I do to side-oiler 427 engines. I have a number of reproduced and original magazines with road tests on original Cobras and they just don't discuss the oiling systems. I had to really dig to find that the first cars were in fact, not side oiler 427s.

The old 427 LR/MR/HR/TP motors are great motors with a race pedigree that improved with every step in their development. They are all great. For that matter so are the 390 and 406 high performance motors of the early 60s, with their high compression, multiple carbs, hot mech cams, streamlined exhaust manifolds, and dual-point distributors. I would love to have a 61 Starliner with a 390/401 HP motor or 62 Galaxie with a 406/405 motor.

[diverrick]

Who would have guessed so much talk from a simple question?

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by diverrick

Who would have guessed so much talk from a simple question?

A subject can certainly be beaten to death on this forum. Opinions are cheap since there are so many of them around. I'm just surprised Patrick hasn't joined in.