reasons for a side oiler Vs a center oiler

[tcrist]

I don't think that is possible.

[fjrgary]

mine is paper trained!

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by fjrgary

like someone else on this forum said, "they just mark their territory".

We old Harleys riders know this all too well we that rode the total loss oiling systemed tin primary bikes.We used to say if they are not leaving their mark something is wrong.

[Silversmith]

So she drips sometimes. It's a beautiful Day, I'm going cruzin in the roadster down to the coast & get a Big Lobsta Role I do luv my Sideoiler. But I have always perfered BB's. I just luv the tourque comming out a turn! Good thread!

[DougD]

Originally Posted by diverrick

OK, Please, no on shoot me over this question.
Was not sure what topic area to put this under.

What is the advantage of a side oiler over a center oiler.
I have been reading that alot of folks want the side oiler over a Center oiler.
I assume C/O's are more plentiful? But what makes the S/O so great?
Other than correctness for a cobra.
I certainly would not know one of it fell on my foot.
Does it offer more power? or something?

"Other than correctness for a cobra." This is my favorite Old Wife's Tale about Cobras.

Big Block Cobras were delivered from Shelby American with three, yes THREE, different engines. For the sake of discussion, you can say that the approximately 300 production cars were roughly split intro thirds. One third Center Oilers, one third 428 Police Interceptors, and one third Side Oilers.

So, for the "correctness" to be right, you could run each engine and still be correct and proper.

I don't think you will find anyone who says a center oiler or a 428 is better than a side oiler. But they're every bit as authentic.

[mdross1]

In all the years I have focused on these great cars can certainly understand ones desire to make them as original as possible.Guilty! For me it was all about the function,form a very close second with outward appearance,interior,wheels,exhaust,etc etc like so many have here.Also 427 Cobra body style with big block,which is where it ended.Like so many cars it is a kit bottom line and We own it.To the uneducated it is a real Cobra until the inevitable question is it a real one.
Authentic? we keep seeing, that's an individual measure all by itself.Been a gearhead all my life and bodyoff restored several muscle cars,dozens of Harley Davidson motorcycles,finishing a total resto of the sixth antique 2 cylinder tractor,soon to start a V8 motorcycle,will say it is all about the finished product.Authentic credentials when it comes to kits has to do with what a person perceives the authenticity of their cars to be.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by mdross1

In all the years I have focused on these great cars can certainly understand ones desire to make them as original as possible.Guilty! For me it was all about the function,form a very close second with outward appearance,interior,wheels,exhaust,etc etc like so many have here.Also 427 Cobra body style with big block,which is where it ended.Like so many cars it is a kit bottom line and We own it.To the uneducated it is a real Cobra until the inevitable question is it a real one.
Authentic? we keep seeing, that's an individual measure all by itself.Been a gearhead all my life and bodyoff restored several muscle cars,dozens of Harley Davidson motorcycles,finishing a total resto of the sixth antique 2 cylinder tractor,soon to start a V8 motorcycle,will say it is all about the finished product.Authentic credentials when it comes to kits has to do with what a person perceives the authenticity of their cars to be.

Big Block FE Motorcycle?...

[REAL 1]

Cobras were originally delivered with 3 different BB engines???

Really???? That's news to me.

I always understood that the 427 was delivered with the Side oiler initially then there was a run of 428 Police Interceptors then back to the 427 SO.

The oiling system in the 428 PI was a center oiler as I understand.

The SO has always been deemed the superior engine based on the cross bolted mains/stronger block and the higher revving ability due to it's shorter stroke and bigger bore. It also has a high nickel content block and stronger webbing.

The SO is the more desirable engine by far but cost drives most to opt for the 428. In fact it was cost that originally led SAI to switch to the 428 for a period of time. A number of original customers also returned their cars for the 427 SO to be installed based on performance. The 427SO is a nastier beast once the revs get up tach.

If you are not racing the motor to high revs or tracking it the 428 PI is a good strong torque monster that is a correct engine for a 427 Street car but not an SC or Comp spec car.

They look the same and sound the same. The 428 is easily a 1/3 or more lower in cost.

If you a nut for "correctness" and are doing a comp or SC it has to be a SO. If you are not a nut for correctness or are doing a street car a 428 is a great option due to price and performance it delivers. You won't have the bragging rights though and when they ask, and they always do "is that a 427" or "is that a side oiler" you'll have to say "no" if your honest. If that doesn't matter to you get then that's great.

[DanEC]

I'm going by Colin Comer's recent book that says early 427 cars were low riser center oilers. They would still be cross-bolted blocks. I think cross-bolting began sometime in the era of the 406 version.

This makes sense because the 64 Galaxie's with 427s were still low-rise, center oilers. I believe they carried over sometime into early 1965 model year, which I think (?) is when the side oiler and medium riser heads began to appear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In reflection - it may have been when the 427 LR first appeared that cross-bolting first showed up. I'm not sure 406 mains were cross-bolted.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I'm going by Colin Comer's recent book that says early 427 cars were low riser center oilers. They would still be cross-bolted blocks. I think cross-bolting began sometime in the era of the 406 version.

This makes sense because the 64 Galaxie's with 427s were still low-rise, center oilers. I believe they carried over sometime into early 1965 model year, which I think (?) is when the side oiler and medium riser heads began to appear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think he is referring to street cars. Center oilers were the 428s. To my knowledge no cobra ever came with a "427 Center oiler" from the factory (eventhough a 428 actually displaces 427 cu in. and a 427 displaces 425 cu in). The 428s used in Cobras were also all low risers.

I'm happy to be corrected but I've been around this hobby for 16 years and never heard or read of a 427 center oiler being put in a BB car at the factory.

[DougD]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Cobras were originally delivered with 3 different BB engines???

Really???? That's news to me.

I always understood that the 427 was delivered with the Side oiler initially then there was a run of 428 Police Interceptors then back to the 427 SO.

The oiling system in the 428 PI was a center oiler as I understand.

The SO has always been deemed the superior engine based on the cross bolted mains/stronger block and the higher revving ability due to it's shorter stroke and bigger bore.

The SO is the more desirable engine by far but cost drives most to opt for the 428. In fact it was cost that originally led SAI to switch to the 428 for a period of time.

If you are not racing the motor to high revs or tracking it the 428 PI is a good strong torque monster that is a correct engine for a 427 Street car but not an SC or Comp spec car.

They look the same and sound the same. The 428 is easily a 1/3 or more lower in cost.

If you a nut for "correctness" and are doing a comp or SC it has to be a SO. If you are not a nut for correctness or are doing a street car a 428 is a great option due to price and performance it delivers. You won't have the bragging rights though and when they ask, and they always do "is that a 427" or "is that a side oiler" you'll have to say "no" if your honest. If that doesn't matter to you get then that's great.

Well, my friend, you understood wrong. It may be news to you, but I stand by my statement. (He holds up three fingers) Three. Count 'em. Three.

This illustrates just how pervasive the Old Wive's Tale is.

I am adding that I should say "3 different blocks" vs "3 different engines" as that's what we're discussing here.

[REAL 1]

I call challenge on this one. Which of Comer's books states this and what page? What does he say exactly.

What is your source of info?

[kobrabytes]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Big Block FE Motorcycle?...

This is probably one of the few times that an off hand comment get a real response... Sorry for the quality of the picture. This sits on one of my neighbors mantels. It's around 1800 HP.

[olddog]

A member here, who owns an original, sent me PDF files of original SAI brochures, quite a few years ago.

There were two different 427 engines.

The street Cobra had two 4V holleys, 10.4:1 compression and 425 Hp.

The Competition Cobra says 4V holley with center pivot float bowls (as if only one carb),
12.4:1 compression and 480 Hp. It also says magnesium intake, alloy heads,
light weight valves, and alloy water pump.

No mention of side oiler verses center oiler.

PS
The 428 street brochure was dated 8/1/66. The other two did not have a date.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I call challenge on this one. Which of Comer's books states this and what page? What does he say exactly.

What is your source of info?

OK - I have 2 of his books and it took me awhile to find it again. I have no first-hand knowledge so don't shoot the messenger - I'm only relaying what I read in Colin's book "Shelby" the complete book of Shelby automobiles.

On page 86 there is a table titled: Coil-Spring Cobra Running Production Changes. It says:

CSX3101 - CSX3200 427 engine, 425-horsepower rating, most were two four-barrel, center-oilers with low-rise heads.

CSX3201 - CSX3305 +/- 428 PI engine, 385 horsepower rating, single four-valve carburetion

CSX3306 - CSX3360 +/- 427 enigne, 410-horsepower rating, singel four -valve carburetion, side-oiler, medium-riser head.

So, if Colin knows his stuff the side-oiler first appeared sometime around CSX3306.

I will now go into hiding.

[CSX3183]

The first batch, 3100 to 3200 were low riser center oilers,,,, period, end of discussion.

3201 to 3300 were 428's

3301 to the end were med riser side oilers.

How do I know, because my car, along with every other 3100 series car, came with a low riser center oiler..

I've been around these cars for way longer than you, almost as long a Ned, it's been 37 years, I've been a concours judge for 427 Cobra's.

To be politically correct, there were 3 versions.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I call challenge on this one. Which of Comer's books states this and what page? What does he say exactly.

What is your source of info?

[olddog]

Originally Posted by CSX3183

The first batch, 3100 to 3200 were low riser center oilers,,,, period, end of discussion.

3201 to 3300 were 428's

3301 to the end were med riser side oilers.

Were there both street and competition versions in the 3100 - 3200 range?

Any street cars above 3301?

[CSX3183]

Without looking, and by going on the last post, 3306 to 3360, are street cars, single 4, 410 HP, med riser side oilers.

Competition cars start at 3001 on up to I believe 3054 or there abouts.

[olddog]

So it would seem the competition engines had different intake, heads, etc. and
they came in both center oiler and side oiler blocks. Likewise the street engines
came in both center and side oiler blocks. That would in my mind, be 4 very different
427 engines and of course to 428 making a 5th. Does that sound correct?

[DougD]

Originally Posted by olddog

So it would seem the competition engines had different intake, heads, etc. and
they came in both center oiler and side oiler blocks. Likewise the street engines
came in both center and side oiler blocks. That would in my mind, be 4 very different
427 engines and of course to 428 making a 5th. Does that sound correct?

The street cars had three distinct blocks. CO, SO and 428PI.

Once you get into the realm of comp cars, the options multiply. Heads came in low riser, medium riser, high riser, tunnel port, cast iron, aluminum, etc. Intakes held one Holley or two or maybe four Webers. I imagine Shelby would have built you anything you had the money to pay for.

The comp cars likely got side oiler blocks as soon as they were available.