Aluminum Body Shelby Continuation rollers $160,000.00

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thanks. I'll check those too? ...How do you check those?????

Use Avogadro's number.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Say, didn't Brian Angliss keep raising the price of his cars when the market was hot and then end up pricing himself out of the market when it took a down turn? Where did that get him? On the outside looking in? And then Lubinsky took over AC to well, um, ...

Remember when Shelby priced the completion cars at 500k? How many did they end up selling? I wonder what happened to all of those frames and parts source from McCluskey?

Is 160k for an aluminum CSX4000 (Kirkham based) roller or the aluminum CSX1000 deluxe roller source from England? If 160k is for the CSX4000, what did they raise the price of the CSX1000 to?

Yes, I realize I'm quoting myself, ... but maybe I can help us get back to the subject at hand, or at least my take on it.

Let's forget about the adjectives like "real", "genuine", "original", "component", , "continuation", "completion", "replica", etc.

Shelby American sells a car today that they are legally entitled to call a "Shelby Cobra". It is similar to the cars they sold in the 1960s, but it is a brand new car. They have raised the price on the aluminum version of that car and continue to do so.

My thought is perhaps they might some day price themselves out of the market. And maybe that some day is now?

When comparing a brand new aluminum "Shelby Cobra" to a brand new aluminum competitor's car, like a Kirkham. There are certainly things to consider, since both are different in a number of ways:

- Components: more original style suspension versus light weight billet suspension, gauges, head light trim rings, side pipes, etc.
- Paint: painted versus non-painted
- Option Cost: cost of stripes, cost of polished finish, etc.
- Brand Name: "Shelby" brand name and serial number versus not a Shelby
- Customer Service

Although the Kirkham is in the SAAC registry, at some point I got the impression it is more there to keep track a car that can easily be confused with a modern day (or even an original) Shelby Cobra, then for it to be there to acknowledge it as a legitimate Cobra. So even though Kirkhams are in the registry, that does not really do much for me.

Now I don't have a bunch of money burning a hole in my pocket to buy either a current generation Shelby Cobra or a Kirkham, but if I did have the money, I suppose there would be a certain premium price that I would consider paying extra for a completed running Shelby Cobra over a similarly equipped completed running Kirkham (painted with original style suspension). But if we are talking $200k versus $100k for completed running cars, I think the 100% premium markup for the Shelby is not worth it to me personally.

Now Evan got into the game with his car years ago when the markup was not as big. Evan what would you do today? Would you still buy the Shelby Cobra today over an identical Kirkham just for the Shelby brand name and CSX serial number considering today's price difference?

At some price point, Shelby could price themselves out of the market. Just consider the extreme case, they could raise the price of a brand new Shelby Cobra to more than the going price of a 1960's Shelby Cobra. At that point, you might as well just buy an original. It would be just as expensive to insure and worry about crashing.

And after all didn't Shelby price themselves out of the market before with the "completion" series at $500k? The answer to that was to start the "continuation" series. I suppose if they price themselves out of the market again, they just have to come up with a new series name at a lower price point. Hmm, I wonder what they would call it, maybe "perpetuation" series?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thanks. I'll check those too? ...How do you check those?????

Ask God's Gift to Motorsport-he knows EVERYTHING....

EDIT:
...see??

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I suppose if they price themselves out of the market again, they just have to come up with a new series name at a lower price point. Hmm, I wonder what they would call it, maybe "perpetuation" series?

No they'd call it a Shelby Licensed Superformance-Cobra,,,

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I agree that the asking price does not set the value. Just pointing out an indicator of which the asking price is an indicator. If they start changing hands at those prices or near those prices then you have value. Further, with the current price increase a Shelby aluminum rolling chasis at $160,000.00 putting a completed car at $210,000+ this is likely to drive the value of existing used and immediatley available aluminum Shelbys higher. Can't say for sure but it certainly seems logical and reasonable to conclude this.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Gee, simple math seems to indicte that being that you won't be able to even buy a rolling aluminum chasis for $150K that would be a great price. Maybe you should buy it at that number if he will sell. You could make out or if he is smart he should hold out and wait for the price increase and he is likely to get his price or close to it.

I already have one. I'm saving for another FGT but they keep going up in price. but its not all bad since I have one.

I'm staying away from the "other" discussion, since that is a red herring.

As for Shelby pricing, as you know, the roller pricing of any manufacturer will likely affect the pricing of all the other manufacturers. The Kirkham's were planning an increase too and, IIRC, Superformance has recently increased their roller price as well. The laws of economics control the free markets. I personally think Shelby has reached the point where their market is maybe a few small select "drunken sailors." No really, I think the market is very thin at that level, if there even is one. Plus, you have to wait more than a year to get it?

And there are several alloy CSX4000's running around on the market for way less than $200K like these two examples ASKING about $170,000-$175,000:

Shelby Cobra For Sale - duPont REGISTRY

I'm a subscriber to Keith Martin's Sports Car Market magazine, which reports auction prices from around the world for all sorts of marques. And I can't remember too many alloy CSX's trading above $150K. I just got my new issue, so maybe they'll have one or two in it this issue and I'll get back to this thread with that info.

[REAL 1]

1ntCobra: Good points. However, remember the Completion series cars turned out not to have original frames. That's what did them in at 500k. Might have been very different otherwise.

I don't know what I would do now between buying a Kirkham or a CSX Continuation Cobra. Depends on available and reserve funds for sure. As originals increase in value certainly there is more upward room for the Continuation Cobras with the reverse applying.

I will say this that if SAI goes out of business the value of the Continuation Cobras will go up substantially.

Bill: just got back from a ride in the old gal. Beautiful day.

Patrick: skipped the Marvel Mystery oil with my fill up. Car seems to run much better. Maybe I was putting in too much MM oil. Now going to check those air molecules.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Ask God's Gift to Motorsport-he knows EVERYTHING....

I'm not sure any normal human being, let alone any deity, would paint their wheels beige to match their beige car.

[PSB]

For less than a real replica Shelby roller, you can buy an ORIGINAL Contemporary - only $149,950! AutoTrader Classics - 1965 Shelby Cobra-Replica Convertible Blue 8 Cylinder Manual 2 wheel drive | Muscle & Pony Cars | Columbus, OH

[RodKnock]

BTW, I'm kinda curious. I don't watch the market closely enough, but are the 1960's AC Cobras valued any differently than the 1960's Shelby Cobras?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by PSB

For less than a real replica Shelby roller, you can buy an ORIGINAL Contemporary - only $149,950! AutoTrader Classics - 1965 Shelby Cobra-Replica Convertible Blue 8 Cylinder Manual 2 wheel drive | Muscle & Pony Cars | Columbus, OH

Get it now ( even though it's only the '2 wheel drive' version) 'cause Bayer stopped makin' 'em!!! (but he's still alive )
They're sure to skyrocket!

[REAL 1]

Rodknock: those prices likely don't account for the new price increase. Also one car has 23000 miles and is still being offer at that price. Does the other have a 427SO.?

As to the Contemporary...what can be said??? I think the Shelby is the better play at that number. Just say'n. LOL

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

BTW, I'm kinda curious. I don't watch the market closely enough, but are the 1960's AC Cobras valued any differently than the 1960's Shelby Cobras?

ACs sell for less.

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I don't know what I would do now between buying a Kirkham or a CSX Continuation Cobra. Depends on available and reserve funds for sure. As originals increase in value certainly there is more upward room for the Continuation Cobras with the reverse applying.

I will say this that if SAI goes out of business the value of the Continuation Cobras will go up substantially.

I hold a similar view. I also ask myself, "What do I want to leave in the garage for my heirs when I die?" If they wanted to liquidate it, the Kirkham (lower price point) would sell faster. But that CSX would still command a premium (from someone, drunken sailors not withstanding ) over anything else "not from the '60's" because of those three letters. Then there is also that part of the market that strictly caters to people that have "F you" money, so they know they will sell a few at the ceiling.

For purposes of clarity, me and most other people that post on forums do not have F you money.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Rodknock: those prices likely don't account for the new price increase.

We don't know if the alleged price increase will affect anything whatsoever. Markets values could drop, increase as you say, or just remain the same.

[bret a ewing]

I try to rationalize things................The cost to construct a painted ally cobra roller is about 70-75k, (judging by Kirkham's pricing and then adding paint).

Shelby is adding $90k to the bottom line just for the "Shelby" name, not even signed by Carroll, so I don't see the value.
I would not expect a rational human to purchase a vehicle knowing this .
You are into '67 GT500 range for gosh sakes, real, original, Shelbys!!

Just MHO of course.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by bret a ewing

Shelby is adding $90k to the bottom line just for the "Shelby" name, not even signed by Carroll, so I don't see the value.

The dead hand can still sign from the grave... you just need to find the right lawyers to facilitate it.

[JBCOBRA]

I heard a rumor that they are "cloning" CS ?
Would that make him Real? Continuation? or Replica?

[patrickt]

BTW, when it comes to signatures, one that is clearly tied to the individual car itself is in a different class than just a plain signature. You can buy his signature, or a glove box door, without too much difficulty. But, that may be changing....

[bret a ewing]

You bet, I have all kinds of car crap signed by him, just had to either make a donation to his charity or buy a car. That should slow down soon...............

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by bret a ewing

You bet, I have all kinds of car crap signed by him, just had to either make a donation to his charity or buy a car. That should slow down soon...............

Robo signing is now taking place, duly authorized by the estate of C.S.