FFR basic kit reality

[wrongwaywillie]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

Well, now there's a good comparison of apples to apples, isn't it? You're a moron.

To get back to the original question. The basic idea of the FFR of 15 years ago was for the average guy with good mechanical skills to build a good Cobra replica without having to spend his life's saving. FFR has done that in spades. There are a number of very good reasons that FFR is the #1 selling Cobra replica on the planet.

The idea is that if you have an 87-04 Mustang and their basic kit, you have everything you need except paint. Everything. Every nut, bolt, wire, gauge, etc. No running to the parts store every other day. If the donor car is of fairly low mileage, there's no need replace a lot of stuff, either. Those low mileage rust free donors are out there, but they're tough to find.

If you're patient, you can build a darned good car to meet your goals for $23-25K. And you'll have a heck of a good time doing it, too.

You'll save a bit of money and time buying a car that's already built. But where's the fun in that? And when people ask, "Where did you get that car?", you'll say,"I built it". It's more than just bragging rights, it's a huge sense of accomplishment. You'll know every nut and bolt on that car, because you put it there. It will truly be your baby.

this what I was kind of looking for, the little stuff that you don't realize you don't have or need. and that turns in to more money time spent.

this thread is intended to help get info , so that I can make a good purchase decision.

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by wrongwaywillie

this what I was kind of looking for, the little stuff that you don't realize you don't have or need. and that turns in to more money time spent.

this thread is intended to help get info , so that I can make a good purchase decision.

If you build (or even buy) a FFR, the main thing is to have a really good idea of what you want the car to be before you start.

Track use? You'll want more power, better brakes and tires which probably means 17" wheels.

Reliable weekend car? Trying to keep it as close as possible to original? Each of those requires different plan. Unless you just like to do things over and spend more money.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

Well, now there's a good comparison of apples to apples, isn't it? You're a moron.

To get back to the original question. The basic idea of the FFR of 15 years ago was for the average guy with good mechanical skills to build a good Cobra replica without having to spend his life's saving. FFR has done that in spades. There are a number of very good reasons that FFR is the #1 selling Cobra replica on the planet.

The idea is that if you have an 87-04 Mustang and their basic kit, you have everything you need except paint. Everything. Every nut, bolt, wire, gauge, etc. No running to the parts store every other day. If the donor car is of fairly low mileage, there's no need replace a lot of stuff, either. Those low mileage rust free donors are out there, but they're tough to find.

If you're patient, you can build a darned good car to meet your goals for $23-25K. And you'll have a heck of a good time doing it, too.

You'll save a bit of money and time buying a car that's already built. But where's the fun in that? And when people ask, "Where did you get that car?", you'll say,"I built it". It's more than just bragging rights, it's a huge sense of accomplishment. You'll know every nut and bolt on that car, because you put it there. It will truly be your baby.

It's not a comparison between cars it's the statement that a chevy powered car is worth less than a ford powered car, not true, and you can buy a mustang donor car without an engine there are more of them at the junk yards that way and put whatever you want in it, one of the cool things about a factory 5 car, moron...

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

So a factory 5 with a ford 302 is always going to bring more money than factory 5 with a new corvette zr1 engine, your a moron...

Thanks for your "measured" response. Ouch
Correct me if I am wrong but a ZR1 engine (especially with blower) is likely more $$$ than the FFR kit itself thus upping our OP build budget likely way beyond where he wants to go. A crate 302 although a great motor is likely not near the price of a crate ZR1 engine with blower. You would want the blower right???... since without it you might as well by the 302.
Hell, why not put the new Ford 5.8 liter with the TVS in the FFR if you are climbing the ladder for the most expensive American motors. At least you keep it in the Ford family.

So, yes, if you put a ZR1 engine in a FFR kit it would likely sell pretty easily. I would by it myself for the motor pull it out and put a nice 351W or 5.0 in it and sell the ZR1 motor.

My comment still stands. Apples to apples, equivalent motor to equivalent motor Ford is the way to go and putting a Chevy motor in a Cobra replica in most cases (we will except from this argument the ZR1 motor) will torpedo the value of your replica. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is a ...

Never mind.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thanks for your "measured" response. Ouch
Correct me if I am wrong but a ZR1 engine (especially with blower) is likely more $$$ than the FFR kit itself thus upping our OP build budget likely way beyond where he wants to go. A crate 302 although a great motor is likely not near the price of a crate ZR1 engine with blower. You would want the blower right???... since without it you might as well by the 302.
Hell, why not put the new Ford 5.8 liter with the TVS in the FFR if you are climbing the ladder for the most expensive American motors. At least you keep it in the Ford family.

So, yes, if you put a ZR1 engine in a FFR kit it would likely sell pretty easily. I would by it myself for the motor pull it out and put a nice 351W or 5.0 in it and sell the ZR1 motor.

My comment still stands. Apples to apples, equivalent motor to equivalent motor Ford is the way to go and putting a Chevy motor in a Cobra replica in most cases (we will except from this argument the ZR1 motor) will torpedo the value of your replica. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is a ...

Never mind.

I would put a Windsor also, just stating that it all depends how much you have in it sometimes is how much you can sell it for...

[Treadmarks]

Some good responses, some a little off topic, like mine may seem.

I am at the end of the same situation of the op. I have been wanting to build one forever it seems. I decided recently that it was time to act. I spent most of this year learning by reading the build posts in one of the other forums. I am a true ford enthusiast, so I wanted a ford powered cobra....period. If I was a bowtie fan I would have acquired a Corvette of similar design.

It really did not take long to realize that building was way more expensive than purchasing one that was already built. REALLY

If you stick to the pure donor concept and go very basic with absolutely zero upgrades, then the numbers will pan out as planned. But as a performance oriented individual (as I am) simple mods to enhance suspension, drive-train, power, ride quality and braking add up very fast.

Donor vs non donor build is a tough choice and there are many pros and cons for both, but it really boils down to exactly what you want the end product to be.

To build one or to buy one built is also a tough choice. I have seen basic donor builds sell from 15 to 30k. But I did not want a basic build. I have seen non donor builds from 25 to well over 50k. My budget was 25k period....

After months of research, I chose a path that would provide me with an original classic look, as much comfort and performance as could be reasonably had within my budget, lighter weight to help with handling and operational economy and modern power-train features to enhance reliability/drive-ability and to allow for simple affordable power upgrades/tuning in the future.

A mild small block (windsor) stroker was my original choice to keep the weight down and allow for good street manners. FFR gen III or newer was chosen as I feel that they provide the best compromise of classic lines, suspension and drive-train selection and the aftermarket is now booming with goodies for the FFR Cobras.

If you stalk the forums long enough you may be able to find a documented build for sale. The one I found for sale was from a forum member that published his build and any issues he had.

I found a very low miles 4.6l DOHC Cobra motor, trans, rear and brakes in a very clean basic build within my budget. Lightweight all aluminum factory cobra motor with factory cobra power steering and factory equipped, big, power cobra 4wheel disc brakes with ABS! I couldn't believe it at first. Cobra everything in a cobra. Perfect blend of modern reliable and powerful technology with the classic lines of my dream car.

May not be for you, heck may not be for anyone else, but it met all my goals that I had established, and it was within my budget.

If you have a spouse or significant other, include them in the plan!!! I have seen many cobras for sale in various stages of build from unopened to complete due to cobra related divorce syndrome.

Make a plan. Identify your goals. Stick to your budget. Allow room to upgrade. Read the forums to learn as much as you can. THEN decide to build or buy.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Here is the COBRA I purchased.

[freddiehebert]

I bought my basic kit for 16k delivered to Cal. If you do it right you can be in the 20k finished. When I bought my kit they were having one of their specials, came with the 15" halibrands and tubular front and rear control arm and the 3link I think. I am in mine in that much no paint yet but drive the piss out of it. All donor parts rebuilt by me. if not rebuilt cleaned and painted nicely. 1998 explorer 5.0 gt40 heads 1993 must wiring and ignition, sn95 spindles and rearend, manual rack and donor gauges no carpet. It all depends on what you want to use the car for. Mine was built for me to enjoy it not anyone else.

Building and driving your dream car PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[289fia_cobra]

I went way beyond my initial budget. But it didn't really bother me as I was having a lot of fun buying things here and there because I decided to go carb instead of FI but that's a whole different can of worms.

To your point though, with a pallet donor parts and basic kit (assuming no back ordered parts to slow you down), the things you'll still need to obtain by purchase or borrowing, tends to be tools; not a whole lot - in my case I did get both a manual and a pneumatic riveter. I also bought about 6 drill bits (3/16" and 1/8"). Also some metal shears - the alum. panels aren't always 100% perfect when interfacing with the body.

Stuff you'll need "New", unless the donor wheels and tires are in very good shape:

* tires
* Grease
* Oil
* Coolant
* transmission fluid
* rear-end gear lube
* brake fluid

Depending upon how the condition of the engine and all related wires, hoses, filters, etc, as well as possibly keeping certain power units attached to the motor, you may still need:

* various engine belts
* various hoses
* plug wires
* sensor harnesses
* air filter
* oil filter
* spark plugs
* power steering fluid (if keeping.)
* AC Refrigerant (if keeping)
* distributor cap, rotor
* rattle can Paint (if you decide to at least freshen the engine's looks)
* gaskets

This could obviously get longer depending upon what you find when you tear down the engine. If it's a high mileage motor, consider a hone and ring job at the bare minimum but if you're going that far, may as well replace main bearings and inspect cam, lifters, etc....

Just my wooden nickel.

[wrongwaywillie]

Tmark and freddie both make great ideas.
I looked at that cobra, that was a good deal.
I've seen several nice cobras for 20-25k , but also would love to be able to say "Yes I built
it"

won't be ready til jan to commit either way. I will continue to read blog and watch 4 sale ads.
if I decide to build i do have my 73 vette and 57 chevy stock to play with til it's done.
also no debate the cobra will be a ford engine.

thanks for all the advice!

Will

[rokfor]

I bought my FFR kit in 2003. I found a side hit 90 GT that had a freshly rebuilt drivetrain. The owner only had liability and the accident was his fault, so I bought the car from him for $3,000. He had receipts for almost $4,000 on just the motor. It was bored out to a 306, E303 cam, Aluminum Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, 1:72 RR, Edelbrock Performer Upper/Lower, 70mmTB & C&L, plus other new accessories. I intended to do a complete donor build, but once I stripped the car down and started going through the parts, then I decided complete donor wasn't a good idea. It also had a brand KC2 clutch, and the trans was good, so I used those as is. I completely rebuilt the rearend and installed 3:55 gears, and I used the wiring harness. Everything else went in the garbage and was replaced with new parts. I completely stripped the GT and sold off roughly $1,500 in parts, so my complete drivetrain was less than $2,000. Total, I have about $25k into my car, and built it in less than a year. So, it's been on the road 10 years now, with no issues, and is an absolutely blast to drive. I would love to sell it and build another one, but I have 3 kids now, so that won't happen any time soon. I would definitely recommend building over buying.

Rob

[Bryan Anderson]

Please take a look at B&B after 30 years in the business we offer a great kit at a better Price a complete kit, tubular front and rear suspension narrowed 9" rear new moser axles, adjustable coil over shocks, alum radiator, headers, side pipes, a complete interior, all the hardware just add your engine and trans Tires and wheels and paint for 17,000 please take a look at our website at *B&B Manufacturing - :::: - Feel the Thunder - :::: - Hotrods from Kit to Turn Key - :::: for full kit info and take a look at our owners group section to see some of the cars we have built over the years. please feel free to call at 417 472-3547 if you have any questions

Bryan

[Frank Messina]

The biggest challenge in the build process is resisting the overwhelming temptation to make changes. When I first started thinking about a build 11 years ago, going with a donor seemed like a natural, and I even looked at a couple candidates. But then I decided I wanted IRS. Don't need a donor just for an engine and trans.....plus, Ford Racing was selling new 351 crate engines at a discount through a dealer in Phoenix. No way I was going to pass on that deal. The dominos never stopped falling after that and my final build plan didn't even remotely resemble the simple add part A to part B that got me started.

If you're not impatient and are willing to spend the time cleaning, stripping and refurbishing parts off the donor, you can bring it in on budget. In the process you will become intimately familiar and bonded to your new car like nothing you've ever owned before. One last thing. All the mega horsepower, big cubic inch chest thumping and grunting is for the parking lot. It was the 289 cars that won all the races. A nicely prepped 302 will push you along quite briskly, thank you very much. Good luck.

Frank

[danw]

As I recall, in the last year or so SpeedTV ran a sweepstakes in which the grand prize was a Factory Five kit, a crate engine and $5000 in shop tools.
In the fine print the Approximate Retail Value of the prize was stated as $50,000. I can do the simple math...less the tools we're talking $45 big ones for the kit and engine.
Then in the fine fine print there was also a statement that the kit may not contain all the parts necessary to complete the project! And keep in mind, the doggone thing's not painted yet!
So congrats if your build came in under $25K, but I have a feeling that most of them don't.

[vatdevil]

While the intent of this thread is the cost to build a FF....you also should consider the resale end. After all, you will someday sell the car. When I was deciding what to buy, I found a used Superformance to be the lowest cost, when factoring in resale. Purchased a 12 year old Superformance for 31K and could easily sell it now for more. And it was a complete well sorted out car. Not dishing on FF, but resale on lower end builds typically isn't that good.

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by 289fia_cobra

I went way beyond my initial budget.

Woha, what surprise!!! You must be the only one here on this forum who busted the "initial" budget - hahahaha

Serious, I really like your build site and detailed build cost. Yeah, I hear ya - so far I can't remember anyone stated here "right on budged"

Nice Cobra btw.

[jayguy]

Willie,

I'm sure you've already checked out the FFR forums and seem many builds over there. It's very possible to build a fast, good looking car for $25K or less starting with the basic kit, all depends on how you spend your money and how much work you do yourself.

I've been helping a friend build one for the last 2 1/2 years. He started with the basic kit, and got it during a sale (one ending this month, and they usually have a winter sale also, just check the FFR website periodically). He upgraded to the IRS, got he 17" wheels on sale, found a junked '90 Mustang to pull engine and trans out of, etc. and will be doing the painting himself. At the moment the car is a driver, with just some wiring for lights, etc and some cleanup items to do before he starts on the body work, and he says he's just at $20K.

And that's with a completely rebuilt T-5 with mid-shift conversion (S-10 tail housing), completely rebuilt and bored 302 with GT40P heads, intake, and a new cam, new rear end gears, Kirkey seats to replace the vinyl ones it comes with, and a few other items.

And it's been a blast to build. He even painted the frame himself instead of getting the powder coat.

As you have also noticed, you can get a partially completed kit or even a completed kit for $20-25 K also, and most of the time the forums will know the builder, or you can find posts showing their progress.

Since you say you're still a while away from jumping it, the best advice is to read, read, read. Doing your homework will pay off more than anything else you do.

And most of all, have fun!