Engine install in ERA

[lippy]

I'm planning my engine install and probably will do it in Oct. I have a lot of conflicting advice on the best way to do this. Should I install the engine+bell, and then the trans later? Or should I install the engine alone, and later the bell and trans, as ERA recommends? Has anyone installed engine+bell+trans together in an ERA 427?

Also, can I get by with a one-ton hoist or should I go with the longer-reach two-ton one? Did you use a tilter or just an engine plate?

I'd really appreciate your experience and tips. Thanks!

[DanEC]

Lippy - Someone within the last few weeks said they installed their engine and transmission together into their ERA. I will see if I can find the thread. I installed my engine with the clutch in place and then installed the bellhousing after the engine was in. Apparently if the entire engine/trans can go in together, putting the bellhousing on before the install should not cause a problem.

Definately get a 2-ton hoist. I used an engine tilter - it's not essential but is nice to have. It kind of depends how you are going to hoist the engine - if using a intake plate then you can pivot the engine up or down pretty easily - and I don't think a tilter is of any help. If using chains at the front and rear of the engine (as I did due to the dual quad intake) then the tilter is a lot more helpful.

If you decide not to try and install the transmission with the engine - I would recomend getting a couple 5 or 6 inch bolts of the size that secure the transmission to the bellhousing, cut the head off of them and round the ends to make some dowels for supporting the weight of the transmission as it's guided into the clutch disc and the pilot bushing. You can swing the transmission down and hang on the dowels and then just slide it in without having to support it's weight.

[DanEC]

It was cscobra - in a post in your build log. See pasted below:

Originally Posted by cscobra

Your FIA wheels look great--I may consider switching to these when the lack of decent 15" tires forces a change to 17" wheels and tires (perhaps sooner than I think!).

Remember, it was easy to install the engine/clutch/bellhousing/transmission as a single unit from the front--you don't even have to angle it much. To do this, the upper center section of the transmission tunnel must not be installed. I used screws to install the center section (instead of rivets) in case of future maintenance/repair. This approach would have been very difficult if not impossible with the old design (757 and earlier). By the way, I'd already installed the radiator and instrument panel, too.

I also mounted the starter to the powertrain unit before the 3-minute installation took place (last-minute decision). As it turned out, I could also have mounted the cast-iron water pump and the expansion tank prior to the installation (not the alternator or fuel pump, though).

ERA still does it the original way even with the new design (758 on), but they were interested in learning that it could be done. They don't know of anyone else who has tried it this way; however, if I can do it . . . . well, it just wasn't hard to do. (Keep in mind, though: 1965 cast-iron FE block, Lakewood bellhousing, and 1965 cast-iron Ford toploader. With other combinations, your results may vary!).

If you want to try it, it saves time and effort, and it greatly simplifies adding the clutch and transmission. I had put everything together just to make sure there would be no problems (doesn't everyone do this?); while it was all together, I decided to experiment and try to install it all together just to see if it would work. Was I ever happy when it did!

[jhand]

I installed my 390 and richmond gears all as one unit, no interior in the car, and it went in very easy.
Jay

[lippy]

Originally Posted by jhand

I installed my 390 and richmond gears all as one unit, no interior in the car, and it went in very easy.
Jay

When you say no interior, do you mean no seats and tunnel? I don't think the dash makes much of a diff.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by DanEC

It was cscobra - in a post in your build log. See pasted below:

Thanks Dan. Small point, but I wonder why he said the fuel pump and alternator need to be off. I would think these would not be issues if the rest clears.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by lippy

Thanks Dan. Small point, but I wonder why he said the fuel pump and alternator need to be off. I would think these would not be issues if the rest clears.

I installed mine with the fuel pump in place but not the alternator because I needed the head bolt holes for chains.



It may also be that if installing the engine/trans together, you have to start with the engine forward quite a bit and kind of swing the engine down and back over the front suspension X-brace. There are also the chassis tubes running over the footboxes and narrowing in towards the X-brace and possibly the fuel pump could hang up. I'm just guessing.

Dropping the engine in w/o the transmission allows it to drop in almost vertically. But putting the trans is separately was a chore.

[patrickt]

Are you going to have Brent dial in your bell housing for you? That would be a nice PITA to avoid for a modest fee.

[lippy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Are you going to have Brent dial in your bell housing for you? That would be a nice PITA to avoid for a modest fee.

Yes, he's doing it.

[tkb289]

lippy,

My experience is with a small block into an FIA, but I would think the process would be very similar. Like ERA recommends, I would install the motor and transmission separately.

Good idea to have Brent install all the clutch components … TO bearing, fork, bell housing and starter … making sure things lined up. As Dan suggested, cut the heads off (2) extra transmission bolts and put into the upper holes of the bell housing to use as guide pins. Do a test fit of the transmission out of the car. Take the guide pins out and remove the water pump pulley & alternator and install the motor without the transmission. Once it's in place, with the seats out and no trans tunnel, the transmission should slide right it and bolt up no problem. As I recall, there is a boss on the TKO 600 that needs to be cut off, it's in the manual.

Along with covering the fenders, tape some cardboard on the aluminum fire wall to keep it from getting dinged up. It helps to have about three or four guys to help guide it in, and help you to celebrate when it's in

Are you going with an internal TO bearing / slave cylinder or external slave cylinder? I would recommend the external, easier to fix if it leaks … but see what Brent recommends for your setup.

Don't forget to take some pictures of this milestone, you are making great progress!

[DanEC]

Not intending to take anything away from tkb289's comments - but I did my engine and transmission install by myself. I think if you have some gearhead buddies who work on cars then an install party sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately most of my friends are hamfisted and know or care very little about working on cars (or are even older than I am). They mean well but I didn't need them around all my fresh paint work. Just to let you know that if you go slow and easy it isn't difficult.

However, a helper or two would be necessary if installing the engine and transmission together to push the back down to slide into the tunnel and then lift it back up over the top of the frame transmission mount.

Again, I think a 2-ton lift is a good idea. Cover and pad everything. If installing the transmission later, figure out how you are going to get it over and down into the car to install. As suggested by tkb289, trial fit the transmission before putting the enigne in to make sure the clutch disc is aligned and it will slip in.

To satisfy Patrick (and the rest of us) take lots of pictures and post.

[tkb289]

Dan,

I like your method and it's impressive you did the motor install all by yourself. I was lucky enough to have several very experienced & talented helpers, that were as careful, thoughtful and particular as I was, so the install went very well. I agree that having ham fisted helpers is not a good idea, they mean well but may not be all the 'helpful'.

It's great to see another ERA going together ... pictures please

[SSSammy]

Originally Posted by lippy

Thanks Dan. Small point, but I wonder why he said the fuel pump and alternator need to be off. I would think these would not be issues if the rest clears.

Mine went in as per DanEC's method. You have to leave the alternator off because it will strike the X brace frame as you come in on an angle. I have done it with and without bellhousing. Without, it is almost a straight down drop. Fuel pump was not an issue.

... and what tkb289 said about a test fit of tranny outside the car:



Sam

[LodiWino]

ERA773 with 427

I have had the engine, bellhousing and transmission in and out several times as one unit. Easy job using a 2 ton engine hoist with a tilt adjuster from Harbor Freight.

Remove the left front wheel and support the frame with a jack stand.

Lift the motor trans over the front of the car, start tilting it down in the back and continue inching the hoist back along side the car. After the bell housing clears the fire wall start leveling the tilt adjuster.

Slowly ease the motor down onto the motor mounts.

Doing the job by yourself should take less than a half an hour.

[lippy]

This is all excellent information. Thanks. I'm going to try to do it all as one unit and if it doesn't look like it will fit easily I can remove the trans. Seems like it's almost a sure thing the engine+bell will fit relatively easily. One more question: should I try to get 2 guys to help, or is 1 good?

[kevins2]

Originally Posted by LodiWino

ERA773 with 427

I have had the engine, bellhousing and transmission in and out several times as one unit. Easy job using a 2 ton engine hoist with a tilt adjuster from Harbor Freight.

Remove the left front wheel and support the frame with a jack stand.

Lift the motor trans over the front of the car, start tilting it down in the back and continue inching the hoist back along side the car. After the bell housing clears the fire wall start leveling the tilt adjuster.

Slowly ease the motor down onto the motor mounts.

Doing the job by yourself should take less than a half an hour.

I'll be installing my side-oiler in the next few weeks. I assume your process is fine from either side, or is there a reason it needs to be done from the left side? Also, do you recall details of what components you pre-installed on the engine - expansion tank, fuel pump, alternator, etc?

Thanks for any details.

Regards,

Kevin

[LodiWino]

Kevin;

Leave the alternator off. Radiator out. Everything else should be OK. Call me if you have any questions. C = 925-525-4700

[jhand]

Originally Posted by lippy

When you say no interior, do you mean no seats and tunnel? I don't think the dash makes much of a diff.

Yes i had no seats no carpet but dash was in and was not an issue. I used a hoist from the beam in our garage at the time as our engine lift did not allow for enough room to get the car under it. This is the older ERA before they changed the frame and tunnel on the car.



jay

[lippy]

Originally Posted by jhand

YThis is the older ERA before they changed the frame and tunnel on the car.

Am I right that the changes to the frame should make it easier on the new cars?

[DanEC]

I think the only frame changes at the front were to go to round tubing for the suspension X-brace (I think that was some time ago) and to add the two tubes that run across the top of the footboxes to the X-brace. If anything, the two tubes kind of narrow the space down to drop the engine through - but not enough to be a problem. Sounds like the transmission tunnel under the dash is the most significant change that might help out.