Looking for Oil recommendations...

[madmaxx]

45 year old engine I would go with either brad penn 20w50 free shipping from jegs or straight brad penn 40wt if your ambient temp when u start the car is above 60f. Reason for the BP is high zinc and phosphorous. Once again any oil is fine!!!!!! Nothing beats a straight weight outside a synthetic.






QUOTE=saturnkk;1277011]So is 20-50 okay for a 45 year old Chevy 327 then? I had heard that as an engine ages, with niles, it is better to go with a "thicker oil" to make up for the wear...[/quote]

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Sometime you just have to do whatever helps you sleep at night.
That's the bottomline.

As far as oils go, Joe Gibbs for me but some of the others are good as well, comes down to personal preference/experience. If Keith Craft swears by Joe Gibbs then that's all I need to know. It's going in a DART aluminum 427w race block. I'm using it in my BMW K1200S sportbike, 11.5:1 cr, runs like a champ.

I've been running the Joe Gibbs Racing oil for a while. I traded a couple of emails with Lake Speed Jr. at JGR and decided on a 50/50 blend of HR-1 (15/50) and HR-2 (10/30).

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Nothing beats a straight weight outside a synthetic.

That's an interesting statement that appears to fly in the face of all available data. What do you mean by that?

[ricky33]

I really appreciate the kind of topics you post here.

[madmaxx]

Multi weight dino oil is made with the lower viscosity to begin with, for example 20W50 is 20weight with viscosity improvers to get 50 weight when at 100C. Synthetic 20W50 starts at 50W and uses VI's to get to 20W at 40C. Assuming both oil are run indefinetly eventually the dino 20W50 will be 20W once the VI are consumed and 20W50 synthetic will be 50W. I would rather have the 50Wt as opposed to the 20W once the VI are consumed.

VI do not have the lubricating properties of oil and is why you want the smallest spread in a multi viscosity oil. Straight oil has no VI it's entire volume is oil. Synthetics do a superior job as compared to Multi weight dino's.

Most modern day oil are made for modern day cars looking at fuel efficiency and emmisions. They have extensive detergent packages etc. Brad Penn and I assume Joe Gibs don't care about emissions and fuel efficiency. There oil have 50% more zinc and phosphorous which is known to harm catalytic converters. Kinda like an extreme pressure additive. That being said you could get a shelf brand oil and throw in some red line break in additive and get the same result.

[mdross1]

This is always a hot topic in any forum.So many are certain they are running the correct viscosity oils because they might have been told it would or they truly believe if it works in this engine it has to work in mine.

No doubt they will get away with their choices but for their engines best protection especially at startup and in their unique climate (Northern cooler Southern warmer). The other things to consider are camshaft choices flat tappet or roller, tight tolerances or loose.

Finally the engines efficiency, tight tolerance lighter viscosity loose tolerance higher viscosity

[madmaxx]

You nailed it!!

"The other things to consider are camshaft choices flat tappet or roller, tight tolerances or loose.

Finally the engines efficiency, tight tolerance lighter viscosity loose tolerance higher viscosity"

Problem is 99% of the guys on this forum have no clue what tolerances their engines were built with and 50% probably don't know if they have flat tappet or roller.

Originally Posted by mdross1

This is always a hot topic in any forum.So many are certain they are running the correct viscosity oils because they might have been told it would or they truly believe if it works in this engine it has to work in mine.

No doubt they will get away with their choices but for their engines best protection especially at startup and in their unique climate (Northern cooler Southern warmer). The other things to consider are camshaft choices flat tappet or roller, tight tolerances or loose.

Finally the engines efficiency, tight tolerance lighter viscosity loose tolerance higher viscosity

[saturnkk]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You nailed it!!

"The other things to consider are camshaft choices flat tappet or roller, tight tolerances or loose.

Finally the engines efficiency, tight tolerance lighter viscosity loose tolerance higher viscosity"

Problem is 99% of the guys on this forum have no clue what tolerances their engines were built with and 50% probably don't know if they have flat tappet or roller.

So specific to my stock 1968 Chevy 327 (300hp) with ~120k miles on it, what do you recommend? Stil the Bradd Penn 20/50? I live in Michigan and the car will be driven from about March/April to about October/November.

[Morris]

Unless you have documentation to back up the ZDDP in the oil.....then all of this talk is meaningless.
50% more of what???.....
Most oil company's don't publish there numbers of ZDDP.....If they do....at least you have something to compare to.
And viscosity is not what the numbers stand for.......it's the molecule ie; 5W30 is 5 weight molecule = Winter = 30 weight molecule.

We run 0W50 in our Kinetic FE motor and that is why most of the NASCAR guy's run the same.....quick oiling on start-up and 50 wt molecule when hot.......and it maintains the structure of the oil for a long time......and has been tested many times.

So get the numbers so you can do your own comparison for you own application.....

[Bxx1]

http://www.synmaxperformancelubrican...le_Reports.pdf

Oil Analysis Info. Click on the above link.

[Morris]

Excellent ....that's what I'm talking about.....

Then you can make you own analysis and use what is appopriate for your application .....

[madmaxx]

Brad penn publishes on their website ding dong with lab analysis

Originally Posted by Morris

Unless you have documentation to back up the ZDDP in the oil.....then all of this talk is meaningless.
50% more of what???.....
Most oil company's don't publish there numbers of ZDDP.....If they do....at least you have something to compare to.
And viscosity is not what the numbers stand for.......it's the molecule ie; 5W30 is 5 weight molecule = Winter = 30 weight molecule.

We run 0W50 in our Kinetic FE motor and that is why most of the NASCAR guy's run the same.....quick oiling on start-up and 50 wt molecule when hot.......and it maintains the structure of the oil for a long time......and has been tested many times.

So get the numbers so you can do your own comparison for you own application.....

[bobcowan]

Weight of the molecule. That's the first time I've ever heard that one.

[Morris]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

Weight of the molecule. That's the first time I've ever heard that one.

That's what the Chemist at Mobil call it.....

[bobcowan]

The grade of oil is not determined by Mobile. It's determined by SAE. SAE doesn't say anything about the size of the molecule, it's all about viscosity measurements.

"By 1926, there were six single grade designations in SAE J300. Such oils, identified as SAE 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60, were graded according to viscosity measurements at 130 degrees and 210 degrees Fahrenheit. "

How Do You Choose the Right Type of Oil for Your Car?

[Morris]

Bob

You only quoted a small portion of what I was talking about.....

"Molecule . a quantity of a substance, the weight of which, measured in any chosen unit, is numerically equal to the molecular weight; gram molecule.
any very small particle."

The size of the molecule will determine the viscosity.....

And like I said...5W30 stands for 5 weight winter oil at 32*degrees and 30 weight molecule at 212*degrees .....

So in the racing world....when Mobil came out with their 0W50 racing oil with 1800 ppm of ZDDP......many of us changed over to it from SCCA, NASCAR, to INDY Car, because it flowed on initial start up and the 50 weight molecule worked great at the high temperatures....on our cams and crankshaft.

BTW....if you have ever seen 50 weight oil at temperature flowing......it looks like Black Water......

[bobcowan]

An oil molecule is the same size and weight, always. It never changes. No matter what the brand or viscosity, the oil molecule is the same size and weight. That's a constant. Just like any other molecule. To change the size/weight, you need to add or subtract atoms. When you do that, you create a new substance. That's basic chemistry.

Nowhere in that article does it mention molecular weight.

SAE grade's the oil rating on it's viscosity at a specific temperature. That's it. that's all it's based on - viscosity. The ratings change a bit through the years as oils and engines advance. But it's still based on viscosity.

The manufacturer's change the viscosity with additives, as said above. That doesn't change the basic molecule, but does change the solution. Like making kool-aid.

[scottj]

SAE defines the measurement of the viscosity.

Viscosity is defined or determined by the molecular weight.

Mineral oil molecules are not all the same. The molecules vary in structure, size, and weight. It is the average weight that determines viscosity.

Synthetic oil molecules are all identical.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

I've been running the Joe Gibbs Racing oil for a while. I traded a couple of emails with Lake Speed Jr. at JGR and decided on a 50/50 blend of HR-1 (15/50) and HR-2 (10/30).

I did the same thing, traded emails with Joe Gibbs technical staff. Gave the bearing clearances on the alu 427w and they came back with - for break-in use Gibbs BR straight 30wt, then go with the Gibbs HR-3 Synthetic 15W-50.

[Johnc1]

408w supercharged all I have ever run is 10W-40 in any my motors. Even in my 460 drag motors. Change 4000 to 5000 no problems. The big block I turn 7000 going through the traps. I have yet to break it. I no that's boring. 90% of the stuff on the TV is hype.