Replica or a modern reproduction?

[hectorturer]

Time to go enjoy my Cobra. Beautiful day. You guys should get out there and enjoy your fakeydoos,...I'm sorry or is that "replicas"? Anyway, go enjoy the day.

A SPF, BD, Kirkham replica's are in my opinion the same as a continuation replicas from Shelby CSX. You maybe have an overpaid replica that will not be much better than any other replica out there. All are Cobras, enjoy your day!

[itstock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Time to go enjoy my REPRODUCTION Cobra. Beautiful day. You guys should get out there and enjoy your fakeydoos,...I'm sorry or is that "replicas"? Anyway, go enjoy the day.

Technically, this is what you have. You don't have an original cobra. You don't have a simple replica, and you don't have a fake.

Do you know the monetary and historical difference between a genuiune original Picasso and a reproduction Picasso?

Now go enjoy your reproduction cobra.

[KevinW]

My Dad says their a'll f*ckin Fake Plastic **** Buckets.... ....'cept for for that Polski Coke Can.

My Mum says you all need a slap behind the legs and sent your rooms for deliberrately starting a fight and pitching in.

[AL427SBF]

buddyg, Ralphy, hectorturer ...
Maybe you guys should look at the SAAC registry as a comprehensive "Buyer's Guide" to all things cobra? You have the original Shelby 60's cars = big bucks. Then you have the follow-on production of the 60's cars by the OEM of the 60's cars = expensive. Then you have several 3rd party manufacturers providing various degrees of affordable copies of the 60's cars geared more toward the enthusiast with a limited budget. Seems the price structure with supply & demand certainly follows that model, particularly on resale. The original 60's cars continue to appreciate, the CSX cars depreciate but not so much, the 3rd party entries seem to take the biggest hit on depreciation. I'm sure there are individual cases where this is not so, but on the whole that's how this market works. Hope this helps with your confusion on the subject.

[hectorturer]

affordable copies of the 60's cars geared more toward the enthusiast with a limited budget

I respectfully disagree, there are a lot of buyer that could buy one, two or three CSX or an original piece ( i.e. Jay Leno). I think that your have enthusiast with smart money and they will realize that a Kirtham, Era, SPF or even custom build is a smart buy. In my case after doing a research I decided to go with the SPF but my garage have Porsche's and AMG's so is really not limited budget is a smart buy for me. I can use the extra 30k price tag to play and still having the same reproduction car.

[twin turbo]

Real1, just for fun, next time someone asks me if my car is an original, I'm going to answer "it's a fakeydoo". Should be fun to see their response. Hopefully it won't be a look of total confusion, lol. Cheers.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by hectorturer

I respectfully disagree, there are a lot of buyer that could buy one, two or three CSX or an original piece ( i.e. Jay Leno). I think that your have enthusiast with smart money and they will realize that a Kirtham, Era, SPF or even custom build is a smart buy. In my case after doing a research I decided to go with the SPF but my garage have Porsche's and AMG's so is really not limited budget is a smart buy for me. I can use the extra 30k price tag to play and still having the same reproduction car.

I think you have few that can afford one, two or three CSX or an original piece but bang for the buck plays into it for some. That does not change what the market is doing with these cars. If 3rd party manufacturer's are to get a piece of the pie they need to undersell the competition and I don't consider SAI to be in that category, SAI is catering to a different class of enthusiast where pedigree is part of the package.

FYI, Jay Leno's 427 is not an original, it was built by Mark Garish in WI who built body bucks and hammered out the aluminum body for Jay.

[hectorturer]

FYI, Jay Leno's 427 is not an original, it was built by Mark Garish in WI who built body bucks and hammered out the aluminum body for Jay.

The reason I mentioned Jay is because he opted to build a replica and years later with the money to buy an original or CSX he just keep his replica

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by hectorturer

The reason I mentioned Jay is because he opted to build a replica and years later with the money to buy an original or CSX he just keep his replica

So? He also replaced the 427 FE with a cammer, seems he made the car he wanted, end of story.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by hectorturer

A SPF, BD, Kirkham replica's are in my opinion the same as a continuation replicas from Shelby CSX. You maybe have an overpaid replica that will not be much better than any other replica out there. All are Cobras, enjoy your day!

of the 3, only the Kirkham is comparable to a csx, that is in design, construction, which keeps to the original design.

when the csx4000 cars came out, they were originally priced under $40K for an un-assembled "kit", which included a lot of high priced parts, like girlings, aluminum dana44 diff, misc suspension parts, fuel cell, radiator, fans, etc. I thought that it wasn't really that bad of a deal for what you were getting, not that you weren't getting a good value for the other replica's, but they were cheaper as well. Basically anytime you replicate anything, the more you keep with originality, generally the higher the cost to replicate, which obviously is one of the reasons most the cobra manufacturer's chose to substitute other parts.

now as far as resale value, from what I have seen, the only "replica's" that I have seen consistently sell for more than their original "purchase" price are the csx4000's, especially if you were able to purchase an early one. As the original owner, you will likely take a hit on every other replica out there, including Kirkham's, ERA's, SPF, etc.

Ned, you are such a wealth of knowledge, more than many of us put together, and probably one of 10 posters on this site that I really respect, but I differ on your view of csx4000's. First, your description of a replica refers to a single object, such as a work of art, not a group or collection. Being that ford stopped selling the thunderbird for a while, does that mean that when they came out with them again, they were now replica's? Is the new dodge power wagon really a power wagon? or a fakey do?

the way I look at it, is that the csx4000 is someone's opportunity to purchase a cobra from the original manufacturer, built exactly like it was 40 years earlier. I wish Chevrolet would build L88's again, ford - boss 429 mustangs again, '57 F-birds as well, mopar '71 hemi cuda's again, all the same as they were originally constructed. Obviously, that will never happen. Dodge is building the hemi challenger again, but how many people would prefer an "original" hemi challenger, as the 2013's are not original, or are they? But, this is the opportunity with the csx4000 cars, if you have this view, and are willing to spend the bucks. Shelby in no way could have sold the cars as completed vehicles, built to 1965 specs. Selling them as kit/component cars was the only way. If you really have the bucks, then maybe get a csx3000 car, but wait, for some of us, a street csx3000 would not be good enough, it would have to have significant racing history. It goes on and on.

All the cobra's are great cars, they're all fulfilling someone's dream. If everybody had the same car, same color, same engine, what fun would that be.

[hectorturer]

Agreed!

[Mark Brye]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

Real1, just for fun, next time someone asks me if my car is an original, I'm going to answer "it's a fakeydoo". Should be fun to see their response. Hopefully it won't be a look of total confusion, lol. Cheers.

I am going to do the same thing because mine is not a Real 1. I might even call it a Replica Fakeydoo.

[hectorturer]

Fakey Fakey Fakey doo were are you?.. Fakeydoooooo!

[OnyxRider]

I'm just reading all this @#@#!# while I'm waiting for the GT40/104 come up for auction. still at it I see.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Ned, I differ on your view of csx4000's. First, your description of a replica refers to a single object, such as a work of art, not a group or collection. Being that ford stopped selling the thunderbird for a while, does that mean that when they came out with them again, they were now replica's? Is the new dodge power wagon really a power wagon? or a fakey do?

.

Anthony, your thoughts and comments are appreciated. In the case of the 2002-7 Thunderbirds and the new Dodge Power Wagons, they are completely different vehicles than those that originally bore the same nameplates. If Ford reintroduced a T-Bird today that identically replicated the cars from the '50's, or if Dodge were to produce a Power Wagon that tried to precisely duplicate the trucks from 60 years ago, then I believe everyone would acknowledge that they would logically be called replicas. But since the newer incarnations of these vehicles bear minimal resemblance to the originals, no one uses that terminology, which is appropriate. It's the old apples to apples vs. apples to oranges analogy.

[buddyg]

So Real1 if your continuation (replica) is a real Cobra shouldn't it appreciate in value like the original Cobra of the 60's?

As I said before enjoy your overpriced "fakeydoo" you deserve it!

[LMH]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Larry: Before you start popping Champaign bottles.....

Ned is certainly correct from a technical dictionary standpoint. The Registry deals with and explains that issue which I won't waste my time with. My effort would clearly be futile here. To those that have an interest in learning and understanding I highly recommend the Registry. But of course if we use and if you insist on staying with Webster's definition then what you guys own don't even rise to the level of a "replica" and best described as Carroll described them...Fake counterfeit cars. Technically he was 100% correct. I'll go with that if you insist on going with technical definitions....... However...

I think SAAC's and the Registry approach, analysis and position is sound and fair.

But I digress. The central issue is the fact that the Continuation Shelbys are genuine Cobras legally, factually, definitionally. Their descriptive status as Current production or continuation series correctly distinguishes them from original series Cobras. Your use (and others here, please see post #14) of the term "replica" to describe the current production Cobras (please see post #14) is not a an effort to technically describe them,(since you clearly had no grasp of Webster's technical definition and for that matter neither did the guy responsible for post #14) but an effort to lump them in the same pot with every other Fake Counterfeit car (lets use the phrase "fakeydoo" for short shall we?)....just staying technical here you understand. No doubt most continue use the term "replica" as directed toward the Continuation/Current production Cobra for this purpose based on sour grapes (another shining example of which is buddyg's most recent post above...its so transparent its actually funny) yet have the temerity to run around this site and no doubt around their towns at gas stations, donut shops and car hops referring to their "fakeydoos" (just staying technical again) as "Cobras". How disingenuous is that!!? Ain't that a laugh.

Larry, your comment that Ned would be interested to know he doesn't own a Cobra would normally be breathtaking in it's ignorance and incorrectness. You are still incorrect but you are so demonstratively ignorant (not saying stupid....grab your dictionary) on the subject of Cobras it's not breathtaking anymore. You and your friends have so consistently demonstrated a staggering lack of knowledge and understanding as to repeatedly embarrass yourselves.

Ralphy: hint..your getting warmer.

Maxwell: Technically, again if you are using Webster's definition ..thank you for the compliment! If your not then we'll just put you in the sour grapes wood pile with the rest.

Buddyg: No,no,no. sorry. Can't have it both ways there "Bud". If we want to stay technical you don't even have a "replica". What you have sir is a "fakeydoo" that just looks like a Cobra. So my "replica" trumps your "fakeydoo".

At least if you go with SAAC's analysis and definitions and the Registry's your "fakeydoo" rises to the level of "replica" and thats better than being defined as a "fakeydoo". The Continuation Shelbys are still genuine Cobras either way trumping your SPF (since it's you that's now slipping into what's "better" lets go there) but at least its a step up for your car. If I were your attorney I would recommend that offer. It's the best your gonna get.

Cheers.

Time to go enjoy my Cobra. Beautiful day. You guys should get out there and enjoy your fakeydoos,...I'm sorry or is that "replicas"? Anyway, go enjoy the day.

Yeah, your right Evan, I don't know anything about Cobra's.
The continuation cars sold by Shelby are replicas of the original cars built in the 60's and exported from AC Cars in England to the states. Push the issue as much as like but you still own a replica of those cars.
Larry

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Anthony, your thoughts and comments are appreciated. In the case of the 2002-7 Thunderbirds and the new Dodge Power Wagons, they are completely different vehicles than those that originally bore the same nameplates. If Ford reintroduced a T-Bird today that identically replicated the cars from the '50's, or if Dodge were to produce a Power Wagon that tried to precisely duplicate the trucks from 60 years ago, then I believe everyone would acknowledge that they would logically be called replicas. But since the newer incarnations of these vehicles bear minimal resemblance to the originals, no one uses that terminology, which is appropriate. It's the old apples to apples vs. apples to oranges analogy.

All excellent points. But to me, an example of a modern replica what you're describing would be a model A Shay, sold through Ford dealerships, if you know what that car is.

Obviously, no car manufacturer will ever re-produce, or re-start production , what ever you want to call it, of vehicles that were 40 years old in design for multiple reasons. But, when Winchester started making model 70 rifles again, that were back to the pre-64 design, were they model 70 replica's? or are they new model 70's? Or even better yet, a new model 1873, the gun that won the west. Is it really a genuine Winchester 1873 ? Is it a replica? I still consider it a Winchester 1873. At this point, it doesn't have the collector value of my original 1873 38-40 from 1883, but for the person who wants an genuine Winchester 1873 made today, probably better metallurgy, great. What would a Winchester rep say if you were to ask him if their new 1873 is a real, genuine Winchester 1873.

So when colt firearms came out with the series 70 1911 again, is that a replica, or is it really a new series 70? re-start of production?

this definitely can back and forth, forever.

One thing I can say different between buyers of csx4000's and csx3000's, I bet most buyers of csx4000's buy the cars to have fun, maybe even thinking about good resale value down the road, no pun intended. I wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of the new owners of csx3000's purchase them with the intention of flipping them, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Nedsel]

I can handle the "apples to oranges" equation. But you lose me on the cars to guns comparison. And I wouldn't call a Shay Model A a replica because too many things have been changed from the original. To me, it would more closely fit the definition of a "replicar."

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by buddyg

So Real1 if your continuation (replica) is a real Cobra shouldn't it appreciate in value like the original Cobra of the 60's?

As I said before enjoy your overpriced "fakeydoo" you deserve it!

Apparently you missed the "update" on that, or continued selective rhetoric on your part, either way let the education continue.

Originally Posted by Anthony

... I have seen consistently sell for more than their original "purchase" price are the csx4000's, especially if you were able to purchase an early one. As the original owner, you will likely take a hit on every other replica out there, including Kirkham's, ERA's, SPF, etc ...