Replica or a modern reproduction?

[D111]

as for the "original" members question,
my answer has pretty much ended up being after a bit over 3 years of owning my BDR has been its a "backdraft Cobra from South Africa". if they ask is that a kit I say the same thing.if they ask is it original I say the same thing .90 percent of the time its at a traffic light and only have a moment to reply,
and the response is most always Wow beautiful gorgeous ect to which my responses thank you.to me that's what it is and it's easy.

So what is the actual deal shelby america has a lock on the word cobra?I could see them having a lock on maybe the word Shelby Cobra but oh my goodness just the word cobra?

in that case the forum should think of changing its name to club poser :-) if only members authorized buy Shelby'to be called a" Cobra" this would be a very lonely forum.

[Ralphy]

Damn it again! lol

I have a SAAC Atlanta 20 year poster. It says something like PROTECING SA and it's history. Now it doesen't say promoting, preserving or some more friendly word than protecting.

Now jump forward and read a blurb. Nowhere is KIT CAR used! Do a search.
:: SAAC ::

"So, to our way of thinking, the current crop of Cobras are genuine but are not original." Also not, "Real"!

"We now find that as the value of Cobras and Shelbys continues to appreciate, the cars have been priced beyond the means of some people who still want to be SAAC members. These people have opted to own Cobra replicas, Shelby look-alikes and other Ford performance cars of which there is presently no shortage. The national club is happy to have these people as participating members, and they add a lot to the club. We like to think of them as potential Cobra or Shelby owners."


Ralphy/AKA 7th Degree Poser

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

A little off topic to the OP's question but you do bring up an interesting point ...



There is a connection with any of these cars to the Shelby story, but it is "money" that decides how strong that connection is. The SAAC registry simply defines the 3 levels that exist and with criteria that recognizes the OEM (or non-OEM) relationship.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by D111

... So what is the actual deal shelby america has a lock on the word cobra?I could see them having a lock on maybe the word Shelby Cobra but oh my goodness just the word cobra? ...

Shelby America does not have a "lock" on the word cobra and is not responsible for creating the SAAC registry. If you want to appeal to the responsible party(s) start with the Cobra Club in Michigan, ask if Bill Kemper and John Rimer still compile the registry data, and then take your case to them (or their replacements).

Ralphy, a "blurb" is just that - a blurb. Do think those ~2 pages of summary capture all 1600 pages of content in the SAAC registry? Yes, "damn it" would be appropriate - if at yourself for another brain fart lol.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

Damn it again! lol

I have a SAAC Atlanta 20 year poster. It says something like PROTECING SA and it's history. Now it doesen't say promoting, preserving or some more friendly word than protecting.

Now jump forward and read a blurb. Nowhere is KIT CAR used! Do a search.
:: SAAC ::




Ralphy/AKA 7th Degree Poser

Ralphy: You truly are struggling with this. This is not rocket science.,

Here's what SAAC is saying:

"So, to our way of think We now find that as the value of Cobras and Shelbys continues to appreciate, the cars have been priced beyond the means of some people who still want to be SAAC members. These people have opted to own Cobra replicas, Shelby look-alikes and other Ford performance cars of which there is presently no shortage. The national club is happy to have these people as participating members, and they add a lot to the club. We like to think of them as potential Cobra or Shelby owners. However, they should not expect that we will suddenly change the club’s policy to include cars outside of our purview as equal partners to Cobras and Shelbys.

As far as CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars are concerned, SAAC accepts these cars as genuine Shelby American Cobras (as opposed to "original" Shelby American Cobras). The definition we use to identify an original Cobra is one which was, 1) built between 1961 and 1968, 2) at the direction of and under contract from Carroll Shelby/Shelby American Inc., and 3) sold by Shelby American or one of its franchised dealers. The only difference between original Cobras and CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars is the time frame in which they were built (1). However, all three factors separate Shelby’s current cars from all the rest of the Cobra replicas, AC MK IVs, COB/COX continuation cars, etc. So, to our way of thinking, the current crop of Cobras are genuine but are not original."




Ralphy, you need to stop injecting your own spin to what SAAC said. The link you posted explains their position most clearly and succinctly. Not hard to understand. They did not add "Also not Real" you did. How did you calculate
7th degree? I know how you figure the poser part but how did you come up with 7th degree or is that number like the rest of what you been saying, just pulled out of arse?

Just get me the calculation. Thanks.


Cheers.

[jhv48]

"Since it is written, it therefore must be true!"

[AL427SBF]

Am I reading this right? There is a "class category" for SAAC membership -

These people have opted to own Cobra replicas, Shelby look-alikes and other Ford performance cars of which there is presently no shortage. The national club is happy to have these people as participating members, and they add a lot to the club. We like to think of them as potential Cobra or Shelby owners. However, they should not expect that we will suddenly change the club’s policy to include cars outside of our purview as equal partners to Cobras and Shelbys.

Sort of like a caste structure, we have landowners, landlords, and dare I say ...
... peasants who work the fields lol.

[Ralphy]

I would prefer,
... peasants who work the fields, that are screwing your mother, "ship".

Ralphy/AKA 7th Degree Poser

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

I would prefer,
... peasants who work the fields, that are screwing your mother, "ship".

Ralphy/AKA 7th Degree Poser

Ralphy, what are you trying to convey/communicate this time, please be precise, the word "ship" seems to be misplaced.

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Am I reading this right? There is a "class category" for SAAC membership -

Yes those with it and those that are clueless.

Someone please slow down this thread so I can get off!

[Dimis]

Real1 - Your point of distinction between genuine and original has been made... BUT if you believe in your mind that responding - "it's a genuine shelby cobra" (as opposed to original shelby cobra) doesn't purposefully give the poor sod asking the question the wrong impression, you Sir are sadly mistaken.

It's that simple... Irrespective of what is written where!

So, guess what...

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...
I'm calling it a "duck"

You on the other hand, can maintain your belief, that because some humble book (that if I understand it correctly, requires payment to list and register your CSX4 series cobra), says so, it must be true!

The SAAC registry I value for its collation of historic documentation of the cars from the 60s and nothing more!

Trying to validate your argument (or perhaps it's your purchase) by piggybacking on that reflects more on you and your sad, perverse and desperate nature to satisfy your ego, that yours is better than someone else's.

Sorry mate, but FWIW: Ive the means to purchase a CSX4 series, just not the interest
I'm glad you however did have the interest. It re-affirms my thoughts and reasons why I pass on the opportunity.

If I had your car and was asked the question, "is that real?" Or a variant of, my answer would be equally as simple. "No, It's a modern reproduction" or "it's a continuation series" or frankly "No, it's plastic". That way NO-ONE is in any doubt.

Just saying, best you just run along and enjoy your car.
You've surly exhausted your Mass-debating skills.

Yeah! I said it

Enjoy,

[rgnbull1227]

Man all those Shelby Mustang Cobra owners are gonna be PISSED! How dare Ford and Shelby put the Cobra Name and Emblem on the cars. Did they get permission from SAAC?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by jhv48

"Since it is written, it therefore must be true!"

You of course have the right to live in your own private little world and belief in your own opinions as preeminent.

I'll ascribe to SAAC's view. I believe it's the their view has just slightly more gravitas then yours. Just MHO.

Dimis: Things really must be upside down in your part of the world. All that blood rushing to your head.

I ascribe to SAAC's view. I can't worry about what every "poor sod" may be thinking or understands. I answer the question truthfully and factually correct. If they inquire further and I have the time I am more then happy to discuss my Shelby Cobra with anyone willing to listen.

What I say is clearly truthful and more accurate then those who don't own a Cobra original or current production answering for instance "FFR Cobra", Spf Cobra, Backdraft Cobra, ERA Cobra etc. etc...None of the forgoing are Cobras and this answer gives poor sod you refer the wrong impression it is what it clearly is not even close too.

You know its funny you said what you said as I'm not surprised you passed on the opportunity to own a Continuation Cobra based on your reasoning skills and "debating skills" although you were at a disadvantage since the truth and facts are on my side.

Cheers.

P.S. Is your "polish thing" a Kirkham if you know?

[lmmargheritis]

Not to get into a pissing match but from my understanding the "New Continuations cars are not completely built by Shelby American. I was at Hilbank Motorsports and witnessed first hand the completion of the 50 (50 Year Anniversary Cars " that were badged as Cobras. Hilbank is part of Superformance. It is also my understanding that the aluminum bodies and perhaps even the fiberglass bodies used on the new CSX cars are made by "Kit Car Manufacturers" for Shelby American. How are these not to be considered something other than true Cobras.

The only true Cobras in my opinion are those built in the 60's. The rest are nice but not "REAL" and while Carrol Shelby was able to sue the pants off several component car builders the end result is that they were not able to use the word "Cobra" in their description. I don't refer to mine as a Cobra but rather as a replica of a 1965 Shelby Cobra. Anyone that has hand built one of these will agree that they are far from being a Kit car. I sometimes wish it were "kit" car given the amount of research and time spent researching parts and manufacturing parts to get it built right. Heck, it is commonly known that the manual that comes with these cars are nothing more than door stops.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

It's actually simpler than that.

Per SAAC based on the official definitions you have amoug others:

Original series Cobras.
CSX series Cobras (aka Continuation Series Cobras)
Replica/kit cars (these cars are NOT Cobras)

Guys here can bang their rattle on the floor like the guy in post #29 with that worn out mantra or you can come up with your own definitions, explanations and/or position (which mean nothing to anyone but you) or you can accept the world leading authority's position as stated in the Bible of all things Cobra of which I am sure many of you even belong to the organization known as SAAC by paying a membership fee and or even purchased a Registry.

As a hobby we do informally refer to all these cars as Cobras for ease of reference and perhaps out of a sense of camaraderie. Yes, I get that and do it myself and have no problem with it at all but when you are getting "technical" it's all right there in the Registry.

When the OP is asked what his SPF is or if it's original the "right" answer is "it's a replica of a Cobra". What he chooses to actually say I couldn't care less.

[Nedsel]

Something no one has yet thrown into the equation is the fact that when the 2008 Registry was published, SAAC was going through a difficult time with Shelby, the man. Back then, he was threatening to shut down the club if it didn't jump through various hoops for him. These included the removal of some of the officers for unspecified offenses, as well as the demand that SAAC send him literally all of their historical documents - those he had given the club, as well as those the club and its registrars had managed to locate on their own - so that he and his new company could take over management and publication of the registry. It was clear that this was simply a marketing gambit, and that the Cobra's history could likely be adjusted or embellished in order to sell more new cars. Hence SAAC stood its ground and, while the club accepted certain compromises, flatly refused to relinquish the registry. Now that Shelby is no longer with us, it will be interesting to see how the next registry handles its description of the modern Cobras being built by Shelby's surviving entities.

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

so that he and his new company could take over management and publication of the registry. It was clear that this was simply a marketing gambit, and that the Cobra's history could likely be adjusted or embellished in order to sell more new cars. Hence SAAC stood its ground and, while the club accepted certain compromises, flatly refused to relinquish the registry. Now that Shelby is no longer with us, it will be interesting to see how the next registry handles its description of the modern Cobras being built by Shelby's surviving entities.

What compromises were made? I remember Shelby wanted all the financials and the kitchen sink too?

Shelby's press release.....


Carroll Shelby's press release

[Ralphy]

Real1, seriously you got your car cash from boxing. However you've taken a few to many head blows.

You said, "here is what the SAAC is saying." Most people use that phrase as to explain part of something that's written. However, you copy and paste the damn thing and offer no further analysis. Wow! Damn your so insightful.


Next you misplaced where the parenthesis are placed. AND THE KEY WORD IS REAL! THAT'S PART OF YOUR USER NAME. AND AGAIN RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

Real1, seriously you got your car cash from boxing. However you've taken a few to many head blows.

You said, "here is what the SAAC is saying." Most people use that phrase as to explain part of something that's written. However, you copy and paste the damn thing and offer no further analysis. Wow! Damn your so insightful.


Next you misplaced where the parenthesis are placed. AND THE KEY WORD IS REAL! THAT'S PART OF YOUR USER NAME. AND AGAIN RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD.

Oey vey

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

I would prefer,
... peasants who work the fields, that are screwing your mother, "ship".

Ralphy/AKA 7th Degree Poser

Ralphy, what are you trying to convey/communicate this time, please be precise, the word "ship" seems to be misplaced.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Something no one has yet thrown into the equation is the fact that when the 2008 Registry was published, SAAC was going through a difficult time with Shelby, the man. Back then, he was threatening to shut down the club if it didn't jump through various hoops for him. These included the removal of some of the officers for unspecified offenses, as well as the demand that SAAC send him literally all of their historical documents - those he had given the club, as well as those the club and its registrars had managed to locate on their own - so that he and his new company could take over management and publication of the registry. It was clear that this was simply a marketing gambit, and that the Cobra's history could likely be adjusted or embellished in order to sell more new cars. Hence SAAC stood its ground and, while the club accepted certain compromises, flatly refused to relinquish the registry. Now that Shelby is no longer with us, it will be interesting to see how the next registry handles its description of the modern Cobras being built by Shelby's surviving entities.

I think SAAC's analysis of the current production Cobras is dead on correct and well thought out and very fair. Consistency is the key to credibility. As to the Surviving entities after DOD for Shelby American I don't see why the vehicles produced after DOD for Carroll would be treated any differently than those produced before. Ferraris built after Enzo died are still Ferraris.

The fact remains, current production Cobras are and will always be undeniably Shelby Cobras legally and factually.

Just my 2 cents.

[Ralphy]

Mother ship, Shelby American son.

Ralphy