Used Superformance or New Backdraft from Vintage

[Mark IV]

[quote=RodKnock;1300371]Then there's the customer service for pre and post sale. Jay from Vintage will give you excellent customer service. Used SPF? None, but the kind and knowledgable folks here on CC.

QUOTE]

I agree that Jay gives great service, but I would dispute the lack of SPF support for a used car. There are several dealers that offer free information and support for cars that they never sold. I field three calls for used info or parts/service to every one asking about a new chassis.

I would postulate that if a used SPF buyer never calls us ,he will never get aftersale support. Or is that too simple of a concept? I have provided warranty support for customers who never purchased from me.....and SPF dealers are responsible for a portion of warranty costs....so I spent money on someone who was not my customer. Why? Because it is the right thing to do and makes good JuJu........Karma is a b!tch!

[madmaxx]

I will say vintage provides exceptional service for BDR and the following for Superformamce Time Machines, Oltoff, hillbanks and vintage upgrades in Houston. Engine builders: Blykins, KeithCraft. In the end some don't tell me what I want to hear but what is right and the best path forward.

On a special side note nobody knows as much about all car stuff as much as Randall Thomas from Scof. I believe he designed the ball joints on the SPF you are looking at, he is very very very smart and has saved me many many hours. If you get a SPF you have to sign up at scof, incredible library of information with pics and very good directions.

[itstock]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Ace, How dare you!!!!!!!!!! How dare you considering a Cobra purchase looking at the "return on investment", how rude and inconsiderate that this is not your only dream in life to own a plastic replica, how dare you that you do not splurge wildly and excuse it as a dream. You my friend are an asssssshole!!!! just like me than again neither of us had to wait until we were well past 50 to buy one, maybe because we look at the economics. I bought my first Cobra to make money, which i did $10K in 8 months and got to drive it just for grins. My streak continues.

Anyone that pays $5k to maintain one of these painfully simple cars should not be driving or owning one. I have not spent $3K over 7 years on 4 different Cobra's including three sets of tires, ceramic coating headers and side pipes, a multitude of gaskets, an oil pump, brake shoes, one wooden steering wheel, one steering wheel emblem, but i have spent well over $3k in fuel.

$5k to cover maintenance AND parts that might have been abused and/or neglected in 10k miles at time of purchase, not simple annual maintenance budget. It's part of the gamble when buying a used car, especially one that likes spirited driving.

Do you have ADD?

And what tires are you buying? 3 sets of any decent tire should hit or be right at your $3k mark.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by itstock

Do you have ADD?

I know people who do... and for mine, its often not them with the problem.
It's those others who feel they have to restrain them, because THEY can't keep up, or deal with the fact.

Just sayin' - No need to be hating on Max.
Perhaps we shouldn't restrain those who are better than the standard deviation.

MAX Good luck to you and keep on keepin' on.

[itstock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I know people who do... and for mine, its often not them with the problem.
It's those others who feel they have to restrain them, because THEY can't keep up, or deal with the fact.

Just sayin' - No need to be hating on Max.
Perhaps we shouldn't restrain those who are better than the standard deviation.

MAX Good luck to you and keep on keepin' on.

4 cobras in 7 years is a good run. Heck,if it were ADD I guess he would just be getting different cars, not sticking with cobras.

I'm not sure where the hating comes in.

[jcam]

For the record, my SPF has over 20K miles on it and is doing fine with the original parts. I personally, hope to be sitting behind the wheel when it hits 100k.

[madmaxx]

Hey I admit I am an assssshole I use BFG at which up to 2 weeks ago I loved. I do a ton of burn outs and love the way they look. Two week ago I goosed it in 2nd at about 40mph and it was like I hit black ice, total loss of control. It was 88f outside so it wasn't ice I sheet myself lucky I didn't hit a tree.

What could possible wear out. The ball joints, rear end, coil overs, brakes, radiator, half shafts, master cylinder can easily go 100k plus miles, heck they are twice the size of the components used on cars today. My tko 600 is good to 600ft-lbs, engine 550 ft-lbs and tires give it up at 300 ft- lbs. the weak link is the engine. At 10k miles the roller is not even broken in. As God as my witness the components on my miata are 1/3 the size as my SPF or my previous bdr's. Besides checking for loose fasteners there is no maintenance on the chassis. The ball joints have zerk fittings to grease my lexus has none it has 105kmiles on it and never greased.

I buy cobras because I am stupid, it is the only car that I can figure out and never have to rely on a mechanic, I am serious!! Mechanically I have zero risk, now paint and body I am screwed don't have a clue but found a guy. Cobras have no antilock brakes, no traction control......

Trust me anyone that can rotate a screwdriver and read and has access to scof can fix 99.99 of any SPF problem. I am sure bdr has the same somewhere or a dealer that will talk u through it. I would love a 911 porsche but not smart enough or driven enough to fix and sure ain't going to pay to get it fixed. My buddies 98 911 clutch parts were $3500! We spent 50 hours what a nightmare!!, cobra clutch is $500 including flywheel and three hours, I never done one they don't wear out they are oversized like everything else.


The cobra I have now won't be my last, next will be a SPF, bdr, era kirkham who knows whatever I stand the least chance of loosing money on.

I love driving them for about 45 minutes a week, than am tired of it, smell, some dumb sheet in a hick truck throwing rocks, traffic, stop lights. My first bdr chassi12? Now has 50k miles and it was beat sheet less for the first 40k. Cobras aren't corvette which IMO is a 50k mile car before sheet falls off it.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Ace, How dare you!!!!!!!!!! How dare you considering a Cobra purchase looking at the "return on investment", how rude and inconsiderate that this is not your only dream in life to own a plastic replica, how dare you that you do not splurge wildly and excuse it as a dream. You my friend are an asssssshole!!!! just like me than again neither of us had to wait until we were well past 50 to buy one, maybe because we look at the economics. I bought my first Cobra to make money, which i did $10K in 8 months and got to drive it just for grins. My streak continues.

Anyone that pays $5k to maintain one of these painfully simple cars should not be driving or owning one. I have not spent $3K over 7 years on 4 different Cobra's including three sets of tires, ceramic coating headers and side pipes, a multitude of gaskets, an oil pump, brake shoes, one wooden steering wheel, one steering wheel emblem, but i have spent well over $3k in fuel.

What do you pay yourself an hour? I've had eBay and cobracoùntry buys shipped to us and the obvious stuff gets to 3k quick before the owners make changes to make it theirs.

These simple cars pose a huge challenge for modern shops to maintain, it's comical what they can no longer do.

[madmaxx]

My per hour rate all depends on the profit, as high as $100 as low as $3.00 with an average of $5.00, yes I am serious. I had 60 hours on an oil pressure fiasco but learned a ton. I have zero overhead, wait I paid to store my boat $55 month so I could use my 4 post lift to work on the cobra.

All the dealers deserve every cent they make and than some, they have overhead, endless questions, dealing with dip****s that never ever get stuff done when they promise and than have to clean up afterwards. It ain't working on the car that is hard it's dealing with suppliers denting side pipes you have to get corrected, polish pieces not all the way polished, nobody stocks sheet the idiots at autozone sell air freshness. Fuking discount tire scratched my newly polished wheel, they paid me $200 for that and it took me 2 hours to repolish with 7" dewalt polisher and airway wheel and 3 different compound and buffs I have $400 into, the only suppliers who never disappoint are summit and jegs, but you get to wait three days every time. Don't even get me going on engine components, there is no quality assurance in this country anymore.

If u are a dealer, unless you charge $150 hour you are doing it for the love of it. I wasted an hour or more of every dealer I mentioned and some I gave business too others not yet. I know I owe vintage upgrades some work from years ago.

In the end if you have no deadline and don't mind waiting and holding peoples feet to the fire you can fix these on your own. If you are an anesthologist take my advice and find a reputable dealer and let them beat on the suppliers!

[RodKnock]

[quote=Mark IV;1300409]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I agree that Jay gives great service, but I would dispute the lack of SPF support for a used car. There are several dealers that offer free information and support for cars that they never sold. I field three calls for used info or parts/service to every one asking about a new chassis.

I would postulate that if a used SPF buyer never calls us ,he will never get aftersale support. Or is that too simple of a concept? I have provided warranty support for customers who never purchased from me.....and SPF dealers are responsible for a portion of warranty costs....so I spent money on someone who was not my customer. Why? Because it is the right thing to do and makes good JuJu........Karma is a b!tch!

I shouldn't have used an absolute like the word "none" in terms of support for a buyer of a used SPF. Maybe you're an exception, and these other "several dealers" too, I don't know, because I haven't read about it. Over the years, I have read about SPF support problems, though not from your dealership. I would postulate that a buyer of a used SPF, from a private seller, will not get the same excellent support that Jay will give his clients either sold new or used. Or, is that too simple of a concept?

"I field three calls for used info or parts/service to every one asking about a new chassis." I'm not sure what this means, other than you can answer a telephone. If you mean that you go out of your way to fully answer and resolve questions, order parts, and otherwise quickly followup to the best of abilities for SPF owners who didn't buy the car from you, then that's fantastic.

Having said that, I'm a bit cynical that product support is similar for customers that purchased new and used products in any environment.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I would love a 911 porsche but not smart enough or driven enough to fix and sure ain't going to pay to get it fixed. My buddies 98 911 clutch parts were $3500! We spent 50 hours what a nightmare!!, cobra clutch is $500 including flywheel and three hours, I never done one they don't wear out they are oversized like everything else.

Clutch kits from FD Motorsports, a reputable supplier and installer as well, are $1,550 for an OEM kit or $1,795 for the LWF/RS kit:

FD Motorsports » 993 Clutch Kits

Labor is roughly $1,000-$1,500 depending on the indie. So, roughly about $3,000 to do the entire job. At $3,500 just in parts, you and your friend were doing other things. Maybe drinking too much beer.

Let's hold the 911/993 BS down. Air-cooled 911's aren't that outrageous to maintain. Though not cheap either.

As for what a clutch will cost to replace in a Cobra, I'm willing to bet it's going to be more than $500 plus 3 hours of labor for us mere mortals.

[Igofastr]

OK, since nobody's asked, here's my take....

If you plan on actually driving your car (ie no trailer queen), buy used and let somebody else take the hit. Depending on how much you're going to drive...a lot...then I'd consider a car with a few more miles because when you eventually sell, nobody is going to care if you added 10K miles to a car that already had 10K miles.

If you're not likely to drive much before you sell, then I'd look for a car with lower miles.

But either way, you'll be money ahead if find a good used car (of whatever make).

I've seen some outrageous numbers thrown out there for maintanance...unless you buy a car with serious engine problems, $5-10K is more than you should ever have to spend over the entire life of your car. I drove a Kirkham for years (7K miles?), and didn't have any reason to spend a quarter of that (excepting a top-end rebuild, my fault). Parts are generally cheap, and these are simple cars.

Your main expense will be tires. Trust me on that.

Finally, just buy the danged car. A Cobra will be the most fun car you'll ever own...if you don't scare easily or are a ninny. I've driven faster cars. I've driven cars that attract more attention. But I haven't driven a car that was any more fun than a Cobra.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

As for what a clutch will cost to replace in a Cobra, I'm willing to bet it's going to be more than $500 plus 3 hours of labor for us mere mortals.

Yep, a clutch that will hold 500+ hp is going to approach $500 right off the bat. Flywheels are generally around $300-350. Labor depends on how rough the trans is to get out. If the car has a removable crossmember, you're doing ok. If not, then plan on pulling the seats, trans tunnel, etc. $$$$

[NewYorkGuy]

You will always have buyers remorse with a BDR or SPE. It's like buying a Porsche Boxster. They are entry level models.

Buy the best, either a Kirkham or CSX. Spend $100K for roller, $35K for engine, add $10K for bling parts. Only then, you will either be a Cobra guy or not.

[Mark IV]

[quote=RodKnock;1300451]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

"I field three calls for used info or parts/service to every one asking about a new chassis." I'm not sure what this means, other than you can answer a telephone. If you mean that you go out of your way to fully answer and resolve questions, order parts, and otherwise quickly followup to the best of abilities for SPF owners who didn't buy the car from you, then that's fantastic.

I would suggest that the Kirkham's offer top shelf service for resale cars....as does my dealership for Superformance. Yes, I am often capable of answering the phone and sometimes I don't even drool or soil myself. The comment about "three to one" service/parts/help to sales inquiries was to illustrate that a larger portion of my business is support related as opposed to new chassis sales.

Supplying parts has become a big part of our operation. And often we will direct the customer to a generic local source for a common industry part. How much can I make on a $10 radiator hose? Rather than double the price because it is a "Superformance/Cobra/Kirkham/Backdraft" part we just give the customer a part number and send them to the local NAPA/CARQUEST, etc.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Yep, a clutch that will hold 500+ hp is going to approach $500 right off the bat. Flywheels are generally around $300-350. Labor depends on how rough the trans is to get out. If the car has a removable crossmember, you're doing ok. If not, then plan on pulling the seats, trans tunnel, etc. $$$$

Thank you.

Based upon the numbers thrown out for a 1998 Porsche by madmaxx, I was a little suspicious of that same cost for a Cobra. I didn't know for sure since I haven't seen or can't remember cost numbers being posted here and I haven't replaced my clutch and pressure plate in my Cobra.

BTW, is $300-$350 for a BBF aluminum flywheel?

[blykins]

You can get a fidanza aluminum wheel for an fe for about. $400.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

You will always have buyers remorse with a BDR or SPE. It's like buying a Porsche Boxster. They are entry level models.

Buy the best, either a Kirkham or CSX. Spend $100K for roller, $35K for engine, add $10K for bling parts. Only then, you will either be a Cobra guy or not.

^^^Wow. I'm not sure where to start with this one.

[Grey 65]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

^^^Wow. I'm not sure where to start with this one.

New York City.... that says it all.....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Grey 65

New York City.... that says it all.....

Personally, I think 99.99999% of us plebs own "entry level" Cobras. If we wanted something a bit more "top shelf," then we'd buy a CSX2000 or 3000 for $1,000,000 +/-.