Used Superformance or New Backdraft from Vintage

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Kobura

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

This is exactly my point, which I made earlier. A happy Vintage customer occasionally/frequently posts here on CC. Honestly, I rarely see posts like this one with SPF dealers. Now, maybe I've missed a few somewhere along the line.

[AL427SBF]

Good tip for Ace, on 1st pass I was thinking Vintage as in age lol.

Vintage Motorsports, working with our customers, is proud to be the leading independent final installer for Backdraft Racing Roadsters.
Welcome to VINTAGE Motorsports

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Kobura

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

Oh I hope Brian's head still fits through the door on Monday

It's a craft, everyday I catch his new approach on what many would consider the same install. I hope someone can make it out to Carlisle this weekend and post a pic of his latest creation.

[madmaxx]

SPF owners don't frequent this site since their cars don't have issues vs BDR...... ROFLMAO. There is no wrong financial decision based off the two he is considering. Is there a wrong personal choice or maybe not optimium choice only he would know that....

A example of a bad decision was Jonny Manzeil entering the NFL draft this year. If he would have waited played another year in college and got in the top 5 next year he would have made more on his signing bonus than he currently will in 4 years since he went late in the first round. In addition he wouldn't have 275 6'5 DE chasing him down as he will every Sunday in the NFL if he starts. TV made him a legend in his own mind, much like have made myself in mine.....

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

SPF owners don't frequent this site since their cars don't have issues vs BDR...... ROFLMAO.

Many SPF owners don't post here as there are dedicated forums for Superformance.....ones without Patrick! Why would you post a question about your Superformance here and wade through a dozen replies about "my ERA doesn't do that" or "Well if you had bought a BDR" or "Dude, sell that piece of sh!te and get a Road Serpent"??????

Anyone who says the have any brand of "Cobra" and said brand NEVER has any issues is a lying piece of.....

Either you enjoy fiddling with your car sometimes or you have a deep checkbook. One or the other is required if you own and drive these cars.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Many SPF owners don't post here as there are dedicated forums for Superformance.....ones without Patrick!

But the real truth is that you wouldn't enjoy this site nearly as much without me....

[madmaxx]

You nailed, you enjoy fiddling or spending $$$ also true, SCOF is second to none in solving SPF and for the most part any car problem. They are surgically accurate with their responses. Even if you don't use the forum the library is incredible....

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But the real truth is that you wouldn't enjoy this site nearly as much without me....

Yeah.......I suppose we would need to find someone else to take your place

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Many SPF owners don't post here as there are dedicated forums for Superformance.....ones without Patrick! Why would you post a question about your Superformance here and wade through a dozen replies about "my ERA doesn't do that" or "Well if you had bought a BDR" or "Dude, sell that piece of sh!te and get a Road Serpent"??????

Anyone who says the have any brand of "Cobra" and said brand NEVER has any issues is a lying piece of.....

I'm not talking about issues. I'm talking about customer testimonials for dealers of either a BDR or SPF. Well, if SPF owners aren't posting their customer testimonials about their dealers over here on CC then I think they're doing a disservice to their dealers and not providing them an excellent marketing opportunity.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by Ace23

Have a few friends with them they are some steam rollers for sure. I think those guys go to the 440 stroker setups and potentially a bit larger and see 620-640rwhp on E85. Anything I'm saying is based off a few friends that have them and then the millions of youtube dyno videos that exist. What a great motor but It would never find its way into a cobra of mine.

Hi, Ace, I want to thank you for entertaining me and others who have followed your thread(s). You have certainly pumped new blood into an older, stubborn car group.

DO NOT BUY A COBRA. Yes, I typed it. You are not a Cobra guy. And it is okay. There will be other cars on your bucket list. It is okay to be honest and look in the mirror, " Do I really need a Cobra in my life?"

You will thank me in 6 months. Save yourself the stress, frustration. Don't be trapped. This Cobra car and life will lead you to drinking, sleepless nights. Think about your family & friends that you have spent time away. It will only get worse in ownership.

I will set you straight about engine choice. The Cobra should have a carb engine.

The coyote engine is a great engine but that belongs in a Mustang. All Cobras should have a carb engine that sounds like a John Deere tractor. It is the lumpy sound you desire.

It is a car you need to know how to fix, either at home or on the road when the car breaks down and it will break down. They all break down because they are simple cars- no fancy modern gizmos- but at the same time, they are simple cars to fix on your own. A hammer, screwdriver, and duct tape will fix any broken down Cobra. Dont have a heart attack when an "expert" Cobra mechanic hands you a $500 bill for a job he fixed in two minutes turning a screw on your engine.

Again, save yourself from Cobra stress.

Heck, wait til the end of the year and you can get a used C7 stingray for $50K. You will have modern luxuries like GPS, bluetooth, airbags, cupholders, AC, and if you want to go roadster, the roof comes off! You can have it all in a Stingray!

Good luck, Ace. I know you will make the right decision.

best,
nyg

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by itstock

Speaking of the ls7, my old mans 08z just dropped a valve which resulted in a rod through the block. 100 percent stock and never tracked. 6 months out of warranty, and a known problem with the ls7. GM says too bad so far.

Yes the have some serious valve issues while others never have a problem. I think this is an OEM problem. Most guys spend $3500 or whatever it is and get the head issue resolved. Sorry to hear about your dads luck

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Hi, Ace ...

More buffoonery from our NY wannabe entry level electric car enthusiast lol.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

A example of a bad decision was Jonny Manzeil entering the NFL draft this year. If he would have waited played another year in college and got in the top 5 next year he would have made more on his signing bonus than he currently will in 4 years since he went late in the first round. In addition he wouldn't have 275 6'5 DE chasing him down as he will every Sunday in the NFL if he starts. TV made him a legend in his own mind, much like have made myself in mine.....

If he did make a mistake, and I'm not saying he did, he may have entered the draft after his freshman year post-Heisman trophy.

As for the 2014 draft, there were rumors that he would be selected at 1 (Texans), 3 (Jaguars), 8 (Browns) and multiple draft slots until he was selected at 22 by the Browns. There were rumors of Dallas at 16. He did great all things considered. The money for 1st rounders isn't all that much different with the newer NFL labor agreement.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

More buffoonery from our NY wannabe entry level electric car enthusiast lol.

Once the alum body Kirks come down to plastic car prices, I will get the last laugh with an electric Cobra!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Dimis

ACE,

Back to your SPF vs BDR - Specifically SBF vs BBF vs Coyote (that thread got shut down before I could play ).

Test driving each wont tell you everything with regard engine choice.
Just be mindful that something as subtle as tyres, or even the final gear ratio will make the "seat of the pants feel" very different, and incorrectly confirm a hypothesis or generalization.

Like I said earlier from what you have described, I get the impression that you aren't interested in ripping VC off, or tinkering with valves, or carbs or other, etc... So If I was in your position I would lean towards a BDR from Vintage with the COYOTE engine

As for your concern on how they sound... they all sound great

I dare say engine identification via sound, is a bit of a wank... 99.99% of the world's population wouldn't have a clue... and those that do, are most likely to be connoisseurs. They are likely to know your BDR aint a CSX3xxx, and are probably rev heads enough to be impressed you successfully fitted a new OEM motor in your new BDR.

Nothing against the SPF... but I see a BDR with a COYOTE in your future.

Again, this is just my take on you from your posts
Enjoy the hunt, its part of the fun.


PS: I wouldn't worry about the potential $$ lost either, the price rise will buffer that and the $10-$15k losses mentioned earlier on this thread are over many years. Just sayin'

I hope to get to look over a Vintage motorsports coyote equipped car that was build last year in the next week or so. This will be right off the heels of spending a bit more time around a SPF with a 427 in it. Lots to think about but that's why I'm going to make the trip. I like the "thought of the coyote" but I will truly know how I feel about it when I hear and see it fire up and just the overall look of the BDR. I will say the SPF so do seem to be built like dump trucks with all those picture of guys going off roading in them and putting 100K+ miles on them. Not saying a BDR isn't a longterm ride just have not come across any of the same information but there are a lot less of them as well. You did get the part right about me not liking to work on stuff but that's just something I would accept with a Cobra

Originally Posted by Kobura

I admit that I haven't read this thread closely, but one of the arguing points seems to be the relative resale values of a BDR versus SPF. It makes sense that the SPF would warrant a higher asking price on the used Cobra market than a BDR because of the initial purchase price differential. But, I think that a Vintage BDR has an extra cache because of the true artistry that Brian performs with his engine installations. Under the hood, the Vintage BDRs are works of art. All of the wiring, hoses, and mechanical appendages of the engine are perfectly arranged, embellished with taste, and carefully installed. I look at my engine compartment with as much joy as the rest of the car. Therefore, I think that a used Vintage BDR would be worth more than a non-Vintage BDR which, in my case, is entirely academic as I am never going to sell mine.

I will get back to you in a week or so on this. From the pictures I've seen they look like a great install and shop. I still can't get over why BDR leaves the inside of the cars white and does not spray them.....that part I didn't notice but think it looks like S***. I know Vintage appears to try and help out with the polished aluminum to dress it up but that's just something that I noticed.

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Hi, Ace, I want to thank you for entertaining me and others who have followed your thread(s). You have certainly pumped new blood into an older, stubborn car group.

DO NOT BUY A COBRA. Yes, I typed it. You are not a Cobra guy. And it is okay. There will be other cars on your bucket list. It is okay to be honest and look in the mirror, " Do I really need a Cobra in my life?"

You will thank me in 6 months. Save yourself the stress, frustration. Don't be trapped. This Cobra car and life will lead you to drinking, sleepless nights. Think about your family & friends that you have spent time away. It will only get worse in ownership.

I will set you straight about engine choice. The Cobra should have a carb engine.

The coyote engine is a great engine but that belongs in a Mustang. All Cobras should have a carb engine that sounds like a John Deere tractor. It is the lumpy sound you desire.

It is a car you need to know how to fix, either at home or on the road when the car breaks down and it will break down. They all break down because they are simple cars- no fancy modern gizmos- but at the same time, they are simple cars to fix on your own. A hammer, screwdriver, and duct tape will fix any broken down Cobra. Dont have a heart attack when an "expert" Cobra mechanic hands you a $500 bill for a job he fixed in two minutes turning a screw on your engine.

Again, save yourself from Cobra stress.

Heck, wait til the end of the year and you can get a used C7 stingray for $50K. You will have modern luxuries like GPS, bluetooth, airbags, cupholders, AC, and if you want to go roadster, the roof comes off! You can have it all in a Stingray!

Good luck, Ace. I know you will make the right decision.

best,
nyg

I plan on keeping my 03 terminator a few months into Cobra ownership incase I need to "bow out" gracefully. I've loved muscle era cars since about 1993when I was 10 That statement means I love the look and sound but have no idea about maintaining. I'm no stranger to a wrench though and I just have to think that if the thousands of guys before me growing up in the 70's could maintain them then I can do the same or at least give it a try. One of the many great aspects of the cobra that appeals to me is unless you do a crazy optioned out new build you don't get slammed on depreciation.....or atleast it appears that way. The C7 is a car someone should be proud to own but I'm not the least bit interested. The only modern corvette I would own would be a C6 Z06 and even those should drop like a rock when the new C7 gets released. I cant get over the rearend on the new C7.....so toyish looking. New cars are great for technology, mpg and reliability. I think new cars absolutely suck when it comes to having soul......I'm probably completely wrong about this because I'm not 16 and growing up with these cars but who in the hell is going to want a C7 stingray in 30 years. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to restore or touch these things with all the plastic they are made of and the thousands of magnetic controls and sensors that they are built with. These cars today are like TV's....manufacturers constantly upgrading and you use them up and throw them away.....except they cost 70K. Just my take but my 03 cobra is like a dinosaur to these new cars and it still has enough electronics on it and stuff that could go wrong. When you buy a new sports car today it should have a disclaimer that says "TREAT THIS CAR LIKE A GIRLFRIEND.....THERE IS NO COMMITMENT IT WILL BE FUN FOR 3 YEARS THEN YOU WILL PART WAYS UNEXPECTEDLY AND IT WILL TAKE 50% OF WHAT YOU HAVE IN IT BUT YOU WILL MISS IT EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT AROUND TOWN" now please sign here and acknowledge your acceptance of this

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

- DO NOT BUY A COBRA.

- All Cobras should have a carb engine that sounds like a John Deere tractor. It is the lumpy sound you desire.

- They all break down because they are simple cars- no fancy modern gizmos- but at the same time, they are simple cars to fix on your own.

- A hammer, screwdriver, and duct tape will fix any broken down Cobra.

- Heck, wait til the end of the year and you can get a used C7 stingray for $50K. You will have modern luxuries like GPS, bluetooth, airbags, cupholders, AC, and if you want to go roadster, the roof comes off! You can have it all in a Stingray!

best,
nyg

These are all astute comments, advice, observations and statements.

1. You definitely want your Cobra to sound like a John Deere tractor. I've been attempting to get that lawn mower/tractor sound for years w/o much success.

2. Yes, Cobras break down because they're simple cars. Simple cars break down just like complex cars do.

3. Hammers, screwdrivers and duct tape are the primary tools in my tool box for fixing my Cobra. They work extremely well when you have to change spark plugs, fix a flat tire, alignments, changing oil & filters, finding TDC, vacuum leaks and exhaust leaks, etc. They even work great when you want to change manifolds, cams, heads, etc.

4. And buying a new or newer GM product is a very prudent move. GM is building high quality cars & trucks, which are rapidly moving up in the JD Power surveys. You rarely, if ever, hear much about recalls either.

This is good stuff. Thanks.

[gary osborne]

Like you Ace, I am not one to work too much on my car. I have mechanics for that. I am sure I could have traded some skinned knuckles for the money I spent and be a little better off financially but if I wanted to work on a car, I would have built a kit. That said, the cars are pretty simple if you keep old technology. Furthermore, I have had my SPF for 15 years and put over 85,000 miles on it. For the most part, it has been problem free. What problems I have had have been drivetrain issues or routine maintenance and nothing to do with the SPF itself. It is still very tight and drives and rides like a dream…..way better than my C-6. Not only have I put a lot of miles on it, they have not been easy miles. I drive it where I want to drive it. It has seen many dirt roads and traveled from sea level to the highest paved road it North American and yes it has even crossed a few streams. The SPF is bullet proof and has a tremendous support system behind it with the dealers and SCOF. SPF has bent over backwards over and over on little things for me (like getting a new top that i never use anyway just because I wanted the newer style or jumping through hoops to get me a new windscreen etc.). I can call Lance at Hillbank or any of the dealers and they are there for me. As I said earlier, my car has not really had problems so I have not had to call on them much (other for frivolous things) but I know they are there to help if I ever do really need them….especially for something important.

I have a dear friend who is a backdraft dealer in Houston and he is also a great guy to work with and I think the BDRs are pretty nice cars. I would buy one if SPF was not available. However, if I ever buy another Cobra, it will be another SPF. I have simply had too much fun and good luck to even consider anything else.

Don’t allow your lack of experience or will to work on a car keep you from buying a Cobra. But don’t go into ownership thinking it is going to be like owning a vette where there is a Chevy dealer in every town and any mechanic can plug the car into a diagnosis computer and fix it. It is a hobby car and will require patience at times and a good mechanic that actually understands what all those parts are supposed to do without the benefit of a computer.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by gary osborne

Like you Ace, I am not one to work too much on my car. I have mechanics for that. I am sure I could have traded some skinned knuckles for the money I spent and be a little better off financially but if I wanted to work on a car, I would have built a kit. That said, the cars are pretty simple if you keep old technology. Furthermore, I have had my SPF for 15 years and put over 85,000 miles on it. For the most part, it has been problem free. What problems I have had have been drivetrain issues or routine maintenance and nothing to do with the SPF itself. It is still very tight and drives and rides like a dream…..way better than my C-6. Not only have I put a lot of miles on it, they have not been easy miles. I drive it where I want to drive it. It has seen many dirt roads and traveled from sea level to the highest paved road it North American and yes it has even crossed a few streams. The SPF is bullet proof and has a tremendous support system behind it with the dealers and SCOF. SPF has bent over backwards over and over on little things for me (like getting a new top that i never use anyway just because I wanted the newer style or jumping through hoops to get me a new windscreen etc.). I can call Lance at Hillbank or any of the dealers and they are there for me. As I said earlier, my car has not really had problems so I have not had to call on them much (other for frivolous things) but I know they are there to help if I ever do really need them….especially for something important.

I have a dear friend who is a backdraft dealer in Houston and he is also a great guy to work with and I think the BDRs are pretty nice cars. I would buy one if SPF was not available. However, if I ever buy another Cobra, it will be another SPF. I have simply had too much fun and good luck to even consider anything else.

Don’t allow your lack of experience or will to work on a car keep you from buying a Cobra. But don’t go into ownership thinking it is going to be like owning a vette where there is a Chevy dealer in every town and any mechanic can plug the car into a diagnosis computer and fix it. It is a hobby car and will require patience at times and a good mechanic that actually understands what all those parts are supposed to do without the benefit of a computer.

Great to hear the 85K mile part of your story! I think the newer BDR must be pretty improved cars considering there are so many pleased owners. What I will say is that those BDR owners have not owned a SPF and vice versa for the most part. I don't think I can go wrong with a used SPF or a new or very newer BDR. Just going to check out these cars and give it some serious thought. I will make a post after I get to see the coyote about how I fealt the quality of the car was. The will be a Vintage car and it will only be my opinion but it will be interesting to see how its differs from what I've hear. I expect it to be a nice car.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by gary osborne

Like you Ace, I am not one to work too much on my car. I have mechanics for that. I am sure I could have traded some skinned knuckles for the money I spent and be a little better off financially but if I wanted to work on a car, I would have built a kit. That said, the cars are pretty simple if you keep old technology. Furthermore, I have had my SPF for 15 years and put over 85,000 miles on it. For the most part, it has been problem free. What problems I have had have been drivetrain issues or routine maintenance and nothing to do with the SPF itself. It is still very tight and drives and rides like a dream…..way better than my C-6. Not only have I put a lot of miles on it, they have not been easy miles. I drive it where I want to drive it. It has seen many dirt roads and traveled from sea level to the highest paved road it North American and yes it has even crossed a few streams. The SPF is bullet proof and has a tremendous support system behind it with the dealers and SCOF. SPF has bent over backwards over and over on little things for me (like getting a new top that i never use anyway just because I wanted the newer style or jumping through hoops to get me a new windscreen etc.). I can call Lance at Hillbank or any of the dealers and they are there for me. As I said earlier, my car has not really had problems so I have not had to call on them much (other for frivolous things) but I know they are there to help if I ever do really need them….especially for something important.

I have a dear friend who is a backdraft dealer in Houston and he is also a great guy to work with and I think the BDRs are pretty nice cars. I would buy one if SPF was not available. However, if I ever buy another Cobra, it will be another SPF. I have simply had too much fun and good luck to even consider anything else.

Don’t allow your lack of experience or will to work on a car keep you from buying a Cobra. But don’t go into ownership thinking it is going to be like owning a vette where there is a Chevy dealer in every town and any mechanic can plug the car into a diagnosis computer and fix it. It is a hobby car and will require patience at times and a good mechanic that actually understands what all those parts are supposed to do without the benefit of a computer.

Gary literally (editorial committee) wrote the SPF owner's manual, and SCOF member. It's great that he checked into this thread today for both a BDR and SPF testimonial.

[Mark IV]

10 pages.......whatcha think, 6-7 more before this bloated dead horse explodes?