Chevy in a Cobra

[REAL 1]

Bruce: I just read your post after responding to AL. You are 100% correct. Bingo. I am now more convinced then ever I am usually right. Man I am good!!!

Thor: No class war here my friend. You are cool with me as long it remains what you want in your Cobra for your own reasons. Just don't try convincing us that Chebby's are the better or correct motor for Cobra replicas. That's where the train goes off the tracks.

BTW, I do like the Walmart Red light specials.

Cheers.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

I am very sorry. That is just me and my Walmart shopping Chevy in my HotRod that is shaped like a Cobra, while Real 1 with his genuine Shelby replica shops at Saks Fifth Ave. Is this being turned into a class war?

YES. Those with it and those without.

Enjoy your cars lads and ladies.

[AL427SBF]

Fair reply Evan, it furthers the dialogue even if we don't agree. You will note my flavor of replica, arguably not even a replica due to its' slightly lower profile, wider track and longer wheelbase. Get past the body and what's underneath is even more radical, a purposely built roadster to be a serious track competitor. It's no coincidence the race chassis was engineered around SB power. So we can agree to disagree, no big deal. Kudos for a well baited trolling hook, no way was I going to let that comment slide

[AL427SBF]

But what of Bob Bondaurant I ask? Do we sweep his position under the carpet as well
$10K for an all aluminum small block? I wish mine was $10K, not even close. I don't buy the financial argument at all, team shelby put in whatever they thought had the best chance of winning, it's all advertising and sponsorships for their products. I bet those 351w were $30K motors if not more.

[Mother]

How about a late fifties Ford Y Block (272 C.I.) bored 60 over with an original 2 X 4 intake with a 4 bolt splayed main, with dry sump, and lumis supercharger bolted to front crank? All this in a 4 inch round tube frame. Mezier water pump, and shortened currie 9 inch with a ratch spool. Coil over 4 link, Fuel cell from fuelly. The knock offs produced by Vintage wheels, with correct off sets, in 17 inches. We have Y Block and the intake. Finding the 400 cfm carbs will be difficult, but not impossible. All set up old school. Sounds like a fun build? We think so.

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

But what of Bob Bondaurant I ask? Do we sweep his position under the carpet as well
$10K for an all aluminum small block? I wish mine was $10K, not even close. I don't buy the financial argument at all, team shelby put in whatever they thought had the best chance of winning, it's all advertising and sponsorships for their products. I bet those 351w were $30K motors if not more.

AL,
Those cars were in a spec series so why would TEAM SHELBY care about winning when they ran against each other. I think they were iron blocks with aluminum heads, not sure though. If it is a spec series you usually try to minimize cost where ever possible. I think Bob B. has a Superformance with a small block in it which he really likes and might just influence his opinion.
I see you are in Scotts Valley, if you are out and about Sunday the
25th of May why don't you come by the Marina airport off reservation road.
I will be running an autox there and you will be able to see and hear a fairly quick reving big block. If you have a helmet I can give you a ride too.
They open around 7:00 am, you just need to sign the waver.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

AL,
Those cars were in a spec series so why would TEAM SHELBY care about winning when they ran against each other. I think they were iron blocks with aluminum heads, not sure though. If it is a spec series you usually try to minimize cost where ever possible. I think Bob B. has a Superformance with a small block in it which he really likes and might just influence his opinion.
I see you are in Scotts Valley, if you are out and about Sunday the
25th of May why don't you come by the Marina airport off reservation road.
I will be running an autox there and you will be able to see and hear a fairly quick reving big block. If you have a helmet I can give you a ride too.
They open around 7:00 am, you just need to sign the waver.

Correcto!

I'm not an engine builder but I can't imagine how you get to $30k on a 351w build. Even if you did/could I would think the expense would rise proportionately for an equivalent BB build. Apples to apples.

Bruce, don't expect Al to be there. He's convinced himself there is no such thing as a quick revving BB that can cut a corner. It would rock his SB world, destroy every hypothetical argument in his arsenal and leave him with a never ending desire to drop some real muscle in his car which of course he would never be able to let any of us know about and likey disguise by putting small block badging on his car and locking his bonnet shut.

Hook now baited with prime rib.

Al, in actuality I think a JBL with an aluminum 427 would make for quite a weapon and a real trick bit of kit. I do recall in my readings over the years that CS did want the 427 to have a longer wheelbase but AC used shorter tubing on hand. I'll have to find the article. Could swear I read it somewhere. How true it is not sure. Then again that was back in my Excalibur days so maybe it was a subliminal thing.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Correcto!

I'm not an engine builder but I can't imagine how you get to $30k on a 351w build. Even if you did/could I would think the expense would rise proportionately for an equivalent BB build. Apples to apples.

It's very easy... a SBF built to Dirt Late Model spec starts at $42K... SBC $38.5K. Built to off road truck spec is $48K.

These are open competition motors, meaning no rules or restictions other than single 4 barrel carb... any cid (BB or SB), any head, crank, rod (Titanium), compression, etc. Though BB are allowed, none exist in this form of racing. All are SBF or SBC, typically displacing 430 cid while weighing 360 lbs. These are the engines that drive the development of the SBF and SBC.

[REAL 1]

Interesting. Didn't know. But I'm talking old school motors.

[vector1]

Imo, putting anything drive train wise into a Cobra lookalike should be supported. To denigrate and separate just dilutes the interest in this hobby. The car market has changed so much in the 40 yrs the Cobra was produced....

For example Backdraft has done well with the BMW based replica. Can you imagine putting the body on some of the imports the 'kids' are interested in and seeing an increase in the population of Cobra based bodies on the street? Probably be outlawed in California..

[scottj]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Interesting. Didn't know. But I'm talking old school motors.

I thought you were questioning how you could spend $30K on a 351w build.

I've had 3 of these old-school (351w/SBC) motors in my E-M before my new-school LS7 based engine. IMHO, the "best" new-school offering on the market is the LS7. The LS7 crate engine borrowed much of its design from the older generation dirt Late Model/off road truck engines and the spec sheets reads much the same.

Fortunately, with the LS7, I was able to get a lot of the technology from the dirt engines, but at the low-low price of a really nice FE.

[NewYorkGuy]

For example Backdraft has done well with the BMW based replica. Can you imagine putting the body on some of the imports the 'kids' are interested in and seeing an increase in the population of Cobra based bodies on the street? Probably be outlawed in California..[/quote]


Sir, speaking on behalf of the 'kids' who grew up driving and modifying imports and also living in California, attended car shows, cruises, underground street races, I will say about 90% of this crowd has no interest in Cobras. Just aint modern. Most 'kids' have 1 car at a time, and it's hard to live with an open roadster for daily driving and street light to street light racing.

[AL427SBF]

Thanks for the invite Bruce but no way I can make it. I have a 13 year old german sheppard mix recently put on phenobarbital to counter seizures. Anyone who has been down that road knows the drill, they can't walk and need to be carried everywhere including outside in attempt to get them to go. He's too much dog for my wife so I'm housebound until he gets past it - 2 weeks is typical to regain balance and motor skills. You can believe it or not, call all it a lame excuse, but that's the deal. If the shelby spec motor was an iron block for the purposes you describe, then clearly not the higher tech entry for other purposes I thought it was, therefore I stand educated on that front. But I do not discount Bob Bondurant's experience and knowledge with racing cobras, on that point I believe what he has to say 100%, just can't ignore it. He has no stake in either motor [unlike here ] and can drive what ever he pleases. I would also venture to say his SBF-SPF was a means to an end and not the other way around. I don't doubt your BB revs well and would truly enjoy some passenger seat time in an original, sorry circumstances won't allow it.

Evan, your example was an aluminum 427 Shelby motor that "if lost" would be $30,000 to $35,000.00 to replace. My example is an aluminum dart SBF, so in fact apples to apples - but I concede my build was extravagant, from the race block up - all high end components. Price out a NASCAR motor and see where you end up.

As for the rest, oh never mind.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by vector1

Imo, putting anything drive train wise into a Cobra lookalike should be supported. To denigrate and separate just dilutes the interest in this hobby. The car market has changed so much in the 40 yrs the Cobra was produced....

For example Backdraft has done well with the BMW based replica. Can you imagine putting the body on some of the imports the 'kids' are interested in and seeing an increase in the population of Cobra based bodies on the street? Probably be outlawed in California..

I understand your point vector1, but denigration of the cobra (I'll say dilution) started right out of the box with anything replica. Top loaders were replaced with 5-speeds, 427's replaced with monster stroked BB or SB race motors, adios girling discs, upgraded suspension, wheels etc. For us JBL guys, I don't even think we're apples from the same tree (nor intended to be). These are hotrods with cobra bodies, they are not required to uphold some standard of authenticity, bring on the LS7's!

[Bartruff1]

If you are going to buy or build a replica of a Cobra it makes as much sense to me to have a engine that is a replica as it does to have a body that is a replica...

Same with the wheels and tires and the interior ???

To each his own, but I would never consider putting a Chevy or a six cylinder or anything but a Ford V8. in my replica..

Crikey, you wouldn't buy a inflatable doll without tits would you ?? I suppose those Chevy guys would.

Just my two cents..

[jhv48]

Maybe it's just me, but putting a coyote or LS engine into a cobra replica just doesn't do it.

I mean, it might look cool and drive great, and get good mileage, but when I pop the hood on one of these cars, I want to see, and hear, a nasty ole, sixties era, oil leaking, gas smelling, idle thumping, cantankerous engine. Don't care if it's a BB or SB, as long as it's a ford engine.

If I wanted the dependability, driveability and fuel economy of a modern engine, then I really don't want all the other inconveniences a cobra offers (cramped quarters, no power brakes or steering, no ABS, no windows, crappy wipers, short wheelbase, and the list goes on and on.)

I guess what I'm saying is I want a sixties type of experience when I drive the cobra. It's not as much about how the car looks as how I feel when I'm driving it. It has all my attention every minute I'm behind the wheel. When I arrive at my destination, I feel alive. I have my modern cars for the other times.

Have you ever tried to talk on a cell phone and drive a cobra at the same time?

That's my point! I don't want to be able to!

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Thanks for the invite Bruce but no way I can make it. I have a 13 year old german sheppard mix recently put on phenobarbital to counter seizures. Anyone who has been down that road knows the drill, they can't walk and need to be carried everywhere including outside in attempt to get them to go. He's too much dog for my wife so I'm housebound until he gets past it - 2 weeks is typical to regain balance and motor skills. You can believe it or not, call all it a lame excuse, but that's the deal. If the shelby spec motor was an iron block for the purposes you describe, then clearly not the higher tech entry for other purposes I thought it was, therefore I stand educated on that front. But I do not discount Bob Bondurant's experience and knowledge with racing cobras, on that point I believe what he has to say 100%, just can't ignore it. He has no stake in either motor [unlike here ] and can drive what ever he pleases. I would also venture to say his SBF-SPF was a means to an end and not the other way around. I don't doubt your BB revs well and would truly enjoy some passenger seat time in an original, sorry circumstances won't allow it.

Evan, your example was an aluminum 427 Shelby motor that "if lost" would be $30,000 to $35,000.00 to replace. My example is an aluminum dart SBF, so in fact apples to apples - but I concede my build was extravagant, from the race block up - all high end components. Price out a NASCAR motor and see where you end up.

As for the rest, oh never mind.

I understand completely, my Weimaraner was diagnosed with lymphosarcoma
at age 4 and given 6 months to live. We took him to the Davis Veterinary Hospital for radiation and chemo and he lived another 6 years. They charged enough to buy Scottj a new late model dirt SBF but it was worth every penny.

[Jamo]

Been down that road with dogs...currently our Lab that needed throat surgery...and I've lost count of emergency and life extending procedures for our cats over the year.

Cobras start looking cheap to maintain.

[AL427SBF]

Thanks for understanding, not a very pleasant thing to watch. Our next step is a CAT scan to determine what we believe is actually going on, brain tumor. At his age the option our vet has recommended is steroids (pending CAT scan results). It's a quality of life decision at this point, buy him some time if we can. Worth every penny spent that's for sure.

[blykins]

Nothing harder than a sick pet, except for a sick child.

I have a cat that I've had since I was in college. He's now 14 years old. Six years ago, he wouldn't eat and was moping around. Took him to the vet and after an x-ray, they found a blockage between his stomach and intestine. The diagnosis wasn't good but we decided for him to have surgery to remove it. The vet told us that it would probably come back and there wasn't much to do except steroid treatment. That was 6 years ago and he's as healthy now as he was before it all happened.

I absolutely hated seeing him there at the vet after surgery, with his paw shaved and his stomach shaved. I felt like I was letting him down by leaving him there when I went to see him, but you do what you have to do.

I don't even want to think about my daughter being sick.

As for the Chevy in a Cobra deal, I look at it like this: you either want a kit car or you want a replica. A replica insinuates that you're going to replicate everything that the originals had, including an FE in a 427 car and a SBF in a 289 car. I never bought the argument that Shelby approached Chevrolet for a powerplant. He may have, but he could have also approached Oldsmobile, Studebaker, or Lamborghini. He could have also thought about putting curb feelers on, or even adding all-wheel drive. But it so turns out, that the originals didn't have AWD, curb feelers, or Chevrolet engines. So, if you want a replica, then you stick to what the originals had. If you want a kit car, then by all means, put whatever you want in between the shocks.