The future of Cobras and hobby kit cars?

[Dominik]

If I look at car shows and races for historic cars, I realize the lack of newcomers.
You see racers who own their cars almost from new and still race them 50 years later.
But only them. The kids can't afford them even if they like them!

I see the same trend for Cobras who will also suffer even more when it comes to registration (I am talking in Europe, where it is extra painful to get them legally on the road - no matter what others tell you!)

Everybody finds a Cobra cool, but can you finance them and get x years of warranty to attract young buyers? Who does service them? What is the cost of ownership and cost per mile driven? Those are numbers discussed daily in marketing departments.

We offer leasing for the GT40s, for business owners (in Germany).

Bob P, website aside, do you guys offer leasing or financing?
Anybody else?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Audi is a real production car and company. These Cobras are fakes and recreated all over the world.

In Fast 5, the cars were supposed to represent the real cars. That's why they were stealing them. I missed the scene where Dom tell Brian, "Hey, those are kit cars. Be careful."

You're missing my point(s) or I'm not making them clearly enough.

Of course, Audi is a real production car company. And they have a massive budget too. The Cobra and other hobby car companies do not have a large budget. They simply don't make a lot of money. Audi pays for product placement, because they can afford to. ERA, FFR, RCR, SPF, KMP, CSX, etc. just can't play in the same marketing environment as Audi. That's why they're not in more videos and movies. For the same reason, their websites aren't spectacular like a real production car company.

Further, you said Audi is the "hero car" in Ironman. I agree. You said Cobra's (and hobby kit cars) should be featured in more videos and movies. I showed that they have been in some videos and movies. Bottom line is that if you see a car in a movie, say like an Audi, or a hobby car like RCR or Mongoose, the consumer might go out and purchase one. The consumer knows it's not a real authentic GT40 that is worth a $1MM. It doesn't matter what they represent. The idea is that they may purchase one because they like it, it may be affordable, and thus they'll investigate owning one.

When the audience is watching Fast & Furious and it features an old car, do you think the audience thinks it's a genuine priceless '63 Grand Sport where GM only made 6 (might be less, not sure) they're smashing up?

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Yes, u love cars and I guess, u can buy the real deals, not fake Cobras like most here on this forum. We are discussing hobby kit cars.

You're sipping wine and eating caviar while the rest of us drink beer and eat hotdogs. Same passion for cars but two different worlds.

best,
nyg

Well I was extracting from various posts and not all had to do with kit cars. In fact one post was mentioning "wood wheels."

I don't drink alcohol and caviar is not my thing. A car guy is a car guy I drive everything..... and mix with everyone.


I don't own anything you would call a replica maybe a Kellison, Shark or Wildfire is certainly a kit. Although I do have an order for a replica in.


When are you getting that green Cobra?

[AL427SBF]

OnyxRider what replica did you order?

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

Well I was extracting from various posts and not all had to do with kit cars. In fact one post was mentioning "wood wheels."

I don't drink alcohol and caviar is not my thing. A car guy is a car guy I drive everything..... and mix with everyone.


I don't own anything you would call a replica maybe a Kellison, Shark or Wildfire is certainly a kit. Although I do have an order for a replica in.


When are you getting that green Cobra?

When Tesla gets into the Cobra market. Then again, it won't be an original fake Cobra unless it has a Chevy gas engine and lawn chairs in the trunk.

best,
nyg

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

When the audience is watching Fast & Furious and it features an old car, do you think the audience thinks it's a genuine priceless '63 Grand Sport where GM only made 6 (might be less, not sure) they're smashing up?

I'm quoting myself so I don't pass along bad info.

There were five (5) 1963 Grand Sport Corvettes. Two (2) of them were roadsters.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You're missing my point(s) or I'm not making them clearly enough.

Of course, Audi is a real production car company. And they have a massive budget too. The Cobra and other hobby car companies do not have a large budget. They simply don't make a lot of money. Audi pays for product placement, because they can afford to. ERA, FFR, RCR, SPF, KMP, CSX, etc. just can't play in the same marketing environment as Audi. That's why they're not in more videos and movies. For the same reason, their websites aren't spectacular like a real production car company.

Further, you said Audi is the "hero car" in Ironman. I agree. You said Cobra's (and hobby kit cars) should be featured in more videos and movies. I showed that they have been in some videos and movies. Bottom line is that if you see a car in a movie, say like an Audi, or a hobby car like RCR or Mongoose, the consumer might go out and purchase one. The consumer knows it's not a real authentic GT40 that is worth a $1MM. It doesn't matter what they represent. The idea is that they may purchase one because they like it, it may be affordable, and thus they'll investigate owning one.

When the audience is watching Fast & Furious and it features an old car, do you think the audience thinks it's a genuine priceless '63 Grand Sport where GM only made 6 (might be less, not sure) they're smashing up?

my point is the Cobra replica business will be end up in junk yards if they don't change or adapt to the new playing field.

The computer tablet has been around since the 1980s and it failed in the consumer market until Steve Jobs and Apple reinvented the tablet and made it cool and a must have item.

But I have no dog in this fight. It's financially better for me if the Cobra market falls in 10, 15 years.

[Cobraatak]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

The original Cobras will continue to appreciate...and other truly unique or historic and rare cars will continue to appreciate.

The market for Cobra Replicas and the Muscle Cars are a demographic bubble and will die off along with the people that buy them.... I guess..

" That is a cool car" does not equate to a future purchase.

The existing cars will be grandfathered for use, but there will be additional regulation, increased cost and lack of demand that will lead to a much smaller market with only a few manufacturers...

Making predictions is risky business, especially if they are about the future.

I never in my wildest dreams would have imagined that a Yenko Camaro or a Boss or a Hemi Cuda would sell for $300,000.

You can count me as another one who never saw the appreciating prices of past muscle cars coming...as I sold my Boss 429 for less than $2,500 in 1975...and I was the original owner too!!

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

OnyxRider what replica did you order?

Yes, I am curious too. It must be a high end fake. That's like buying a fake Rolex when u already have a real Patek or Jaeger. The stigma is always present inside your mind and among your peers.

[AL427SBF]

RodKnock, pay no mind, it's just a minor ruckus coming from the cheap bleacher seats

[Jamo]

THIS is Club cobra...damn good thread. I'm hoping the mfgs are reading this one.

It doesn't take much time with Leno to find out that car guys are car guys, no matter the economics or culture. Watch the hillclimb event the Top Gear boys had in the foothills of the Himalayas and you quickly realize that cars, like horses in bygone days, just draw folks together, and whenever two dudes end up on a road together, whether on horses or in cars, the shared question will be...who's fastest?

Fresno has a long long history with racing, hot rods and street machinery, and you see all the comments made here coming together. We are probably on par with New York or LA in terms of the various cultures that come together here...it's always been this way. But me thinks the folks in urban areas may have a limited view of what's going on in the heartland.

I have a special affinity for the Hmong folks that live here (I think we surpassed the Twin Cities in terms of their population) and have small farms...reminds me of Armenians coming from a broken homeland and taking stock and working hard. Their Christian center is right next door to us out here in the country, so I do indeed come across and hear their "hot rods" if you will. They are doing exactly what we did...making them look cool and go faster. Technology's a bit different, but the interest is the same. They "get" the Cobra...given a few rides and dusted off a few of the little Hondas and stuff just for fun out between the vineyards and orchards.

But out here, there is going to be a large group of folks that live and die with American iron. Farmers drive American pickups, and their employees do too. You can look under the hood of a farm labor contractor's pickup, adorned with all the goodies from aisle three at Pep Boys (the shiny mud flap chick, the bulldog hood thingy with the lighted eyes, the lightbars and window curtains along the interior ceiling, etc.), and find K&N air systems, headers, bigger carbs on the old stuff, etc. And they race as much as my dad and the boys did back in the 60s with their pickups "built up" by Boghosian and others. Hell, you'd better check that lowrider out before taking him on at the stoplight...just as easy setting up a nitrous system as it is hooking up a major sound system playing War and definitely easier than the hydraulics...those folks know their stuff. We've got some of the best 4WD builders in the country here...lots of early Broncos, Scouts and jeeps with nasty motors in them (still have my own 76 Bronco sitting out back waiting for some TLC). We even have a wicked local Meyers Manx with a blown Corvair hanging out back that will kick some major ass if you ask nicely. Then again, you can hear my friend Phil's F40 light up from his house a couple of blocks away when he takes it out for a little drive into the canyon...screaming louder than our hawks could ever hope to.

My rambling point is that I suspect the interest in cars is not going to go away soon out here in the outback, and the American V8s are always going to have a leading part. There be a mess of Cobras here in the middle of California/nowhere...cruizes always seem to involve 6 or seven different ones, and we do tend to have more than a little presence at the local car shows and gatherings, or carving through some sierra canyon road mixed in with bikes and sportscars.

Kids interested in Cobras...yup, and a few younger folks are building some kits right now with dads and friends, just like we used to do when hoping up dad's old pickup or putting together a dune buggy. SB100 is always going to be a draw for folks not wanting to deal with the expense and hassle of smog stuff...not sure that's promoted enough by the mfgs here in the important California market.

...back to work.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

RodKnock, pay no mind, it's just a minor ruckus coming from the cheap bleacher seats

the best fans are in the bleacher seats. Apparently, u haven't gone to any NY Rangers or Knicks home games, or to Wrigley Field.

been to owner suites at Staples Center. Wasn't too impressed with the crowd or view, but the dessert carts were delicious!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

my point is the Cobra replica business will be end up in junk yards if they don't change or adapt to the new playing field.

The computer tablet has been around since the 1980s and it failed in the consumer market until Steve Jobs and Apple reinvented the tablet and made it cool and a must have item.

But I have no dog in this fight. It's financially better for me if the Cobra market falls in 10, 15 years.

I can appreciate your point, but let me continue taking the other side of this debate.

First, Cobras and other hobby-type or kit cars will probably always be a small niche market. The cars do not meet current emission and Federal safety standards. So, state inspections and licensing will be difficult in most states. As an example, CA has a maximum of 500 new SPCNS (SPecially-Constructed) registrations each year. And there are many hoops to go through to get one.

Second, since this is a small niche market, there isn't alot of profit to be made. Thus, marketing budgets will almost always be small.

Third, one could argue that the Cobra and hobby-type car manufacturers are changing with the times. Examples are:

RCR (Race Car Replicas). I'm no expert of their history, but the owner Fran has introduced other kits like D-type Jaguars and the racy modern looking SL-C.

FFR has introduced the '33 Hot Rod and the GTM.

Kirkham was exploring offering an odd-type vehicle for the Greece-market some time ago, but I don't know what happened to that vehicle and whether it got off the ground. But, starting with Jamo's KMP, Kirkham did introduce the BNL (bare naked lady) option, which was no paint and a brushed or polished finish, which most customers opt for now. Actually, quite modern, since most old-timers prefer painted Cobras. And of course, they introduced the lighter stronger billet-aluminum suspension and other improvements over the years.

SPF and BDR now offer 18" wheels and BDR offers really interesting and unique new colors and the RT3 GT Cobra. SPF started offering the GM-licensed '63 Grand Sport replicas. Also, SPF also has just recently introduced a 289 model as did ERA.

CSX? They've built and marketed 50th Anniversary editions of both the 427 and 289 models.

Is this "changing with the times," adapting and/or reinvention? It's not radical change, but the needle is pointing somewhere on the proverbial "change-o-meter." And while I know you just picked a prominent example with Apple and Steve Jobs, but seriously, you're talking about one of the greatest companies and visionaries of the 20th and/or 21st century. The owners of the Cobra and hobby-type car manufacturers are smart and fine gentlemen, but that's not an apple-to-apples comparison.

Bottom line: Cobra's and other hobby-type cars have been around for 30-40-50 years, so I think they'll survive in some form in the future.

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Yes, I am curious too. It must be a high end fake. That's like buying a fake Rolex when u already have a real Patek or Jaeger. The stigma is always present inside your mind and among your peers.

It's not a cobra...lol I'll explain later. When I get a chance I'll comment on Jamo's post. I'll just have to remember to bring the wine and Russian stuff when we take the gremlin, marlin, or pacer out. ooops I forgot we used the pacer some time ago for target practice.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

the best fans are in the bleacher seats. Apparently, u haven't gone to any NY Rangers or Knicks home games, or to Wrigley Field.

been to owner suites at Staples Center. Wasn't too impressed with the crowd or view, but the dessert carts were delicious!

I'm sure you know that AL427SBF was using a metaphor that I think meant that owners of Cobra's and/or other hobby-type cars are bigger fans of the those cars than the folks who are just contemplating the purchase. The owners have already spoken with their pocket books. At least two sides to everything nowadays.

But, along the same lines, ClubCobra does get quite a few new members thinking about purchasing a Cobra each week/month/year, but some/many do eventually lose interest in Cobra's and purchase a Z06.

Probably the most famous of which was a few years ago and his CC moniker was "rsimoes." Of course, "rsimones" bought and built a Kirkham Cobra, with the whole nine yards (awesome build), for roughly $127,000 and then sold it a month or two later, after delivery, for roughly $88,000 because it was too "raw" for him.

[dallas_]

One other comment on the hobby aspect of the Cobra (meaning replicas).

I find that a large percentage of the attention that I get in mine is from kids of all ages.

There is just something timeless about the shape and sound of the car that transcends age. So maybe there is hope for the future popularity of this particular model of 'hobby kit car'.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by dallas_

I find that a large percentage of the attention that I get in mine is from kids of all ages.

I'm curious, do you find that most of the kids that you see will cry , if the see a SBF under the hood, as Patrick keeps suggesting over and over?

One of these days, I'm going to test the OP's theory. I've gotta find a "tuner" F&F (Fast & Furious)-type event though. There's a new monthly Cars & Coffee-type event just started in my area a couple months ago. While I haven't brought my Cobra out there yet, it's only a "rich old fart" type deal.

I'd still like to see how my polished aluminum Cobra w/BBF fairs against the likes of the new or newer Ferrari's, Porsche's, Viper's, Maserati's, Lambo's, etc. Will I get a 1st or 2nd look? Also, maybe the CC crowd will stop "giving me the business," or S, about not ever taking my Cobra outside the garage.

[4pipes]

We're waiting.....................

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

the best fans are in the bleacher seats. Apparently, u haven't gone to any NY Rangers or Knicks home games, or to Wrigley Field.

been to owner suites at Staples Center. Wasn't too impressed with the crowd or view, but the dessert carts were delicious!

That's my point, you are a spectator in this sport, make as much noise as you like

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Jamo

THIS is Club cobra...

Excellent post Jamo, right on the money imo.