Replica or real? [help request from Switzerland and Italy]

[1ntCobra]

I am not sure that LAC 017 sounds like an AC Bristol serial number.

1956 AC Bristol - Roadster | Classic Driver Market

This Bristol's serial number from the above link is BEX 211.

If perhaps the chassis was on the road from back in 1961 and it is some sort of AC, it would have a leaf spring chassis instead of a coil spring chassis. If that is the case, maybe it had the original body replaced with a Kirkham body? The Kirkham website says they have been around since 1994.

[MOTORHEAD]

My money is on a Kirkham:
1 Brushed aluminum body
2 Hood latches, door hinges as per an original/Kirkham/ Shelby re-pop.
3 Foot pedals have Kirkham logo.
4 Rear fenders have small flare, same as Kirkhams ( there own original 427 was actually a street version that was modded to SC specs, then restored to original street specs before it was auctioned earlier this year.
5 Rollbar is higher than most, with the Harness bar.
6 Rectangular tail lights
7 Disregard the inst panel, just all inncorrect gauges.
8 Look at the sheetmetal under the doors, and the slim door opening trim at the bottom,
as original, etc.
9 Look at the tubing inside the front opening. Correct with alum sheet behind it,
I'll find more.
Tran tunnel has been added to.

[MOTORHEAD]

Davide: post a picture of the area in front of the engine. That will show us the type of front suspension.

Ted

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

My money is on a Kirkham:
1 Brushed aluminum body
2 Hood latches, door hinges as per an original/Kirkham/ Shelby re-pop.
3 Foot pedals have Kirkham logo.
4 Rear fenders have small flare, same as Kirkhams ( there own original 427 was actually a street version that was modded to SC specs, then restored to original street specs before it was auctioned earlier this year.
5 Rollbar is higher than most, with the Harness bar.
6 Rectangular tail lights
7 Disregard the inst panel, just all inncorrect gauges.
8 Look at the sheetmetal under the doors, and the slim door opening trim at the bottom,
as original, etc.
9 Look at the tubing inside the front opening. Correct with alum sheet behind it,
I'll find more.
Tran tunnel has been added to.

I did not notice the "old style" cast Kirkham pedals in that picture.



Here's a couple of cast pedals I got at the Kirkham garage sale that are not finished.



The current Kirkham pedals are billet, not cast.

[LMH]

Sure looks like Kirkham to me. The shape of the nose/oil cooler and vents are Kirkham.
Where does KMS put their chassis numbers? That would be a sure way to find out.
Larry

[MOTORHEAD]

Saw a post not too long ago regarding using "LA" at the end of the SN for cars going to Latin America. I guess it's leagle to ship "turn key" cobras there. Just throwing that out there, don't think there's a connection to this vin.
If this is a pre sb100 car, maybe the PO used an old ac bristol reg to get his kirkham registered. I've heard stories about kitcars, hotrods, homebuilts, etc, getting registered here in the states using regs from junked cars such as a '65 mustang reg that shows it as a "1965 ford 2 door "
(or maybe it was "SA")

[DavideG]

...edit...

[King- cobra]

DavidG,
Like Motorhead I am pretty sure it is a early Kirkham. Look on the door hinges and the Kirkham number is stamped into them just like a original car. The is the easiest was to verify. I have had several Kirkham's. The suspension is most likely steel or a combination of steel and billit depending a serial number. Feel free to PM me if I can help you any more.

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by DavideG

Dear Kayakjack,
Unfortunately I never seen a USA Car Title before this one, so maybe I'm not very good to understand it.
I was thinking that the field "year 1st sold" (61) means that the car was sold as new in 1961. Also the field "year model" (61) and "make" (BRIST) was bringing me wrong.
You're kindly explaining me that the car was registered in California for the first time in 1996. I 100% trust you, but can you explain me where do you have deduced that? What field?
.

Davide,

Look at the "Certificate of Title" for the "State of California". I believe this document would be issued only one time when it is first titled in a State. So the September 1996 dates shown for "Registration Expiration Date" and "Issue Date" show when it was first titled in California. It is possible that it was titled previously in another state.

If this is a Kirkham as I (and others here) think, the other dates "61" and all the rest is simply incorrect. No Kirkhams were made in 1961. I suspect these dates are all nonsense and an attempt to register the car in 1996 as something it is not. Not sure of that however. The only fact I know is that Kirkham's website they have been doing this since 1994.

The German (I think) words at the bottom of the Title sort of indicate the car was shipped to Europe in 1997. Not sure of that either.

Beautiful car!!!

Jack

[LMH]

Originally Posted by King- cobra

DavidG,
Like Motorhead I am pretty sure it is a early Kirkham. Look on the door hinges and the Kirkham number is stamped into them just like a original car. The is the easiest was to verify. I have had several Kirkham's. The suspension is most likely steel or a combination of steel and billit depending a serial number. Feel free to PM me if I can help you any more.

Does Kirkham also stamp the chassis number on the right hand shock mount like the originals did?
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DavideG

During my web research, I read that "SB100" is an American Law that allow replica car manufacturer to register some unit per year as the original one, or I'm wrong?

Passed in 2001, SB100 is a California law only and it allows CA residents to register kit cars or Specially-Constructed (SPCNS) cars which do not meet current safety and emission standards. The limit is 500 per year.

The registration as shown is not for an SPCNS car.

[Mark IV]

A Kirkham with some "creative" titling to avoid importation/tax issues. There was a lot of this done with Euro imports until the authorities started requiring proof of year documentation and copies of previous registrations to reduce the fraud.

[Danr55]

The COBRA did not hit the streets until 1963 with the 427 coming along a couple of years later. If you look at the California registration, it's registered as a 1961 Bristol which would make it much earlier than the cobra and much more like the slab sides than the FIA car it's been made to look like. I'm not sure what you have, but I am reasonably sure it's not a Shelby Cobra of the 427 variety nor is it an AC Bristol as the registration would indicate.

[DanEC]

Far from conclusive, but the wipers park to the left side like a Kirkham.

[MOTORHEAD]

Davide: I agree with mr MK IV, the paperwork is bogus.
I'd bet my next paycheck there's a coil spring 4" tube chassis under that car.
Based on condition (small block, incorrect gauges, incomplete interior with modded tranny cover, unknown miles and condition) should bring $75-80K US.
Don't know how that would translate to your local currency (euro ?), or what the european cobra market is.

Ted

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by LMH

Does Kirkham also stamp the chassis number on the right hand shock mount like the originals did?
Larry

Let's go back a few posts for that answer...

Link to where Ken said to look for the Kirkham VIN stamping

Although the SAAC registry lists Kirkhams with serial numbers of the form KMP000 and KMPS000, it shows that the VIN number stamped on the shock tower and on the footbox tag is actually 11 digits. An example 11 digit VIN is KC8ASLC0594. So presumably that would be the same as serial number KMP594.

Shelby cars with body/chassis sourced from Kirkham have a steel plate with the CSX number welded over top of the Kirkham number.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Davide: I agree with mr MK IV, the paperwork is bogus.
I'd bet my next paycheck there's a coil spring 4" tube chassis under that car.
Based on condition (small block, incorrect gauges, incomplete interior with modded tranny cover, unknown miles and condition) should bring $75-80K US.
Don't know how that would translate to your local currency (euro ?), or what the european cobra market is.

Ted

I think that the bogus paperwork is the most likely explanation and your bet is a good one.

However, it does still seem strange to customize a perfectly good Kirkham dash board and transmission tunnel to look like that. So I'd say there is still a very slight chance that this could still be something like a Bristol that had a wrecked body, that they fixed by dropping a Kirkham body on top of the chassis. On the other hand the Kirkham body is probably too wide to fit a Bristol chassis.

Yeah, the bogus paperwork to get an early Kirkham into Europe does seem like the best answer.

[damage]

not sure where Kirkham used to stamp them but the current cars are stamped on the left hand side shock tower (cross member)

[MOTORHEAD]

Mine, KMP028 is stamped on the starboard shock tower, and "028" on door hinges.

[maurice19]

KMP318 is stamped on the port tower, drivers left, with all the letters and numbers required by California dmv and 0318 on the door hinges.

Maurice