Replica or real? [help request from Switzerland and Italy]

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

...The VIN is LAC017? CA won't register/issue a VIN# that short. My CA VIN# uses the Kirkham issued chassis#, which is 11 characters. So, the VIN number should be at least 11 characters long, if not longer.

My VIN is only 9 characters.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And the biggest clue that the title certificate is bogus? FEES PAID NONE. Come on, this is California. No business transacted at the DMV is free. Seriously?

SB100 is free. There are no charges at all when going for an SB100, which is not the same as going for a registration and SB100. My new title said No Fees when I got an SB100.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Paul F

My VIN is only 9 characters.

I was told there's a minimum by the DMV and 11 characters worked in their computers. I highly doubt "LAC017" would pass muster at the DMV.

Not sure why yours would be 9, but the standard Kirkham chassis# is 11 characters.

Originally Posted by Paul F

SB100 is free. There are no charges at all when going for an SB100, which is not the same as going for a registration and SB100. My new title said No Fees when I got an SB100.

First, did you see this ""? Second, did I say anything about SB100 being free or not? While the SPCNS/SB100 process (visits to the CHP, BAR, B&L Inspection Station) may be free, titling, registration and taxes most certainly are NOT. Unless, you some how missed paying those taxes and fees. My title certificate states that I paid my fees and taxes. Lastly, the OP's registration didn't go through the SB100 process. Allegedly, it was titled in 1996 as a '61 Bristol. So, not sure what you're thinking there.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The VIN is LAC017? CA won't register/issue a VIN# that short. My CA VIN# uses the Kirkham issued chassis#, which is 11 characters. So, the VIN number should be at least 11 characters long, if not longer.

So you can't register a 60's CSX car (CSXxxxx...7 characters)? Many cars had short VINs before the WMI 17 digit VIN became the rule in 1981.

And at one time NY couldn't handle a VIN over 15 digits! In the late 70s we sold Brougham motor homes that had an 18 digit VIN....NY could only put 15 on the registration. Solution? They took 3 digits off the end, the three unit number digits! Resulting in several units having the same title/registration VIN printed! Gotta love the DMV......................

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

The issue with titling the car overseas depends on the local providential government body. Each town has it's own rules and regulations in areas like Switzerland, Austria, certain parts of Spain (Madrid for example). One local rule does not supersede another. In this case the owner (OP) has a fraudulent (IE: not a real title, but something conjured up from a LaserJet printer) California title, so technically he has no ownership papers to prove he actually owns what he is in possession of.

As for the original poster attempting to circumnavigate his local laws by using said fraudulent paperwork, that is the risk alone he will have to decide to take and potentially lose the car to government inpoundment, forfeiture , and destruction. Sounds almost impossible, ask Mr Muck, I'm sure he can fill you in on at least one or two that have been crushed.

Bill S.

PS: No beef with anyone, just hate for anyone to get sucked in to such an issue years down the road by reading this thread.

Bill,

I don't get the impression that the original poster is attempting to circumnavigate his local laws by using fraudulent paperwork. I think he is trying to determine what kind of Cobra replica he has and along the way, we have figured out that he appears to have fraudulent paperwork. With that being the case, perhaps the best course of action would be to sue the person he acquired the car from as opposed to trying to sell the car?

[Buzz]

I agree with 1ntCobra. That's a hell of a statement considering that nowhere in his postings does the original poster indicate that intent. He is doing the right thing by asking questions about what he has in his possession. As for the part about people getting sucked into this years down the road by reading this thread - I really don't get that either.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I was told there's a minimum by the DMV and 11 characters worked in their computers. I highly doubt "LAC017" would pass muster at the DMV.

Not sure why yours would be 9, but the standard Kirkham chassis# is 11 characters.



First, did you see this ""? Second, did I say anything about SB100 being free or not? While the SPCNS/SB100 process (visits to the CHP, BAR, B&L Inspection Station) may be free, titling, registration and taxes most certainly are NOT. Unless, you some how missed paying those taxes and fees. My title certificate states that I paid my fees and taxes. Lastly, the OP's registration didn't go through the SB100 process. Allegedly, it was titled in 1996 as a '61 Bristol. So, not sure what you're thinking there.

My California VIN is 9 digits long. Title date was 2000.

[1985 CCX]

Isn't CSX2000 the original
everything else a replica?

I think this car is real...............

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

So you can't register a 60's CSX car (CSXxxxx...7 characters)? Many cars had short VINs before the WMI 17 digit VIN became the rule in 1981.

And at one time NY couldn't handle a VIN over 15 digits! In the late 70s we sold Brougham motor homes that had an 18 digit VIN....NY could only put 15 on the registration. Solution? They took 3 digits off the end, the three unit number digits! Resulting in several units having the same title/registration VIN printed! Gotta love the DMV......................

Are we talking about an original 1960's era Cobra here? Uh, no. Obviously the OP's car is not a 1960's original CSX. I don't have any clue what happened at the DMV that long ago or how they're registered today in CA's computers.

So far, we have two CA owners of replicas built more recently that have 9 characters. Anyone with shorter VIN's? My DMV representative and her manager had some difficulty making mine (11 characters) work. And hadn't seen anything that short before.

[MOTORHEAD]

Before the standardized 17(?) digit vins were adopted (1973?) here in Fl, vins were much shorter, don't think there was any standard. Fl will recognize a vin with any number of digits if the car was built before 1973 (again, not sure of exact year)

[CSX4815]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

My California VIN is 9 digits long.

My VIN issued by CA CHP is 7... CSX4815

[HealeyRick]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Bill,

I don't get the impression that the original poster is attempting to circumnavigate his local laws by using fraudulent paperwork. I think he is trying to determine what kind of Cobra replica he has and along the way, we have figured out that he appears to have fraudulent paperwork. With that being the case, perhaps the best course of action would be to sue the person he acquired the car from as opposed to trying to sell the car?

Davide,

It appears likely this car was given a false paper trail in order to be admitted into the EU as an "oldtimer" that was previously registered and titled in the U.S. to avoid import, emissions and registration restrictions. Other than satisfying your curiosity, trying to track down who is responsible for the deed may not be the best use of your resources. You received something of value that appears to be not what it was represented. It's time to talk to an attorney and discuss your options of recovery from the person from whom you received the car.

Best of luck,

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Before the standardized 17(?) digit vins were adopted (1973?) here in Fl, vins were much shorter, don't think there was any standard. Fl will recognize a vin with any number of digits if the car was built before 1973 (again, not sure of exact year)

You do mean in 1981, right, before that the standard was a 9 digit VIN for Florida and all other states in the Union.

[DavideG]

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[DavideG]

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[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by DavideG

Dear Friends, my english is not so good so maybe I have not correctly understand the point of your latest messages.
I cannot understand what I've done wrong, if I done.
I was only asking your opinion about our Cobra, both its documentation and its his body.

I'm grateful to everyone who participated or simply read this thread.
You helped me a lot and I am in debt with all you.

I'm interested in understanding and investigating what's happened before, because what's next, by hook or by crook, its our problem.

About the US Title, it's very difficult for me to think that it's counterfeit.
Maybe it contain not perfect data, but from that to say that it is done with a LaserJet printer, I think it's a long way

OK, let's say that the US title is NOT a fake. Then what would the title be for if it is a real title? It would be a US title for a 1961 Bristol last registered in the US in 1996. Your car is NOT a 1961 Bristol and that title cannot possibly be for your car if "your" car was manufactured 10 years after 1996. And then there is a Swiss title replacing the US title in 1997. Once again, that title cannot be for "your" car that would not exist for another 9 years.

So what could that mean? That there was a 1961 Bristol that was registered with a Swiss title in 1997. You have a title for that car. So you own a 1961 Bristol. Where is "your" 1961 Bristol? Did it get crushed and recycled? Your title is NOT for the 2006 Kirkham you have in storage. Can you see how that might mean you have a 2006 Kirkham in storage that you do not actually own?

Let's say the 1961 Bristol was crushed and recycled into beer cans and such. But someone still had the Swiss title. They buy a 2006 Kirkham and cover up the Kirkham serial number with an aluminum plate with the 1961 Bristol's serial number. Doesn't that sound illegal to you? That Swiss title really has nothing to do with the 2006 Kirkham. That title does not say you own the 2006 Kirkham you have in your possession. It says you own some other car, that might not exist anymore. What if there is some paperwork somewhere for the 2006 Kirkham? Couldn't a person with that paperwork say you have their 2006 Kirkham in your storage garage and demand you return it?

I think you should get a lawyer before attempting to sell the car with the paperwork you have. I am not a lawyer, but your lawyer might suggest going after the person you got the car from instead of you trying to sell it.

[1ntCobra]

Let's think about this a bit differently. How about a story like this. There is a guy named Fred who has paperwork that says he owns the Mona Lisa painting, but he let's the Louvre display it for him as it is too much trouble to keep the painting at his house. And in an unfortunate accident while the Mona Lisa was out for cleaning one day the truck that it was in catches on fire and the painting becomes a pile of ashes and Fred collects the insurance money. Somehow Fred managed to keep the paperwork that says he owns the Mona Lisa painting and goes out and buys a copy of the Sports Illustrated magazine Swim Suit edition. He cuts out one of the pages of an attractive young woman and has it framed. Then he takes a magic marker and forges Michael Angelo's signature in bottom corner. He then declares that his framed picture of the girl in the bikini is the Mona Lisa based on his paperwork. In a real estate deal Fred gives the Mona Lisa paperwork and the picture of the bikini girl to some guy named DavyZ. DavyZ not being familiar with the Mona Lisa does not realize that it should not be a girl wearing a bikini, but manages to sell the paperwork and the new "Mona Lisa" for $20 million Euro to some art museum in China that is also unfamiliar with the Mona Lisa. After a while the Chinese art museum realizes that the picture is not really the Mona Lisa. They have some irrelevant paperwork for a painting that no longer exists and an unrelated picture of a girl in a bikini. Further the museum does not even have proof that they own the picture of the girl in the bikini. Don't you think the museum is going to get its lawyers to sue DavyZ and try to get him thrown in jail?

[cobra]

Dear Davide

I saw the ad on Auto Occasion Schweiz, Autos kaufen, verkaufen - AutoScout24 in Switzerland and hope that you didn't paid the desired price. The way the seller has described the vehicle, you notice immediately that he has no idea and everything just goes about achieving the highest possible price.
I had thought that it in times where everyone has Internet, should no longer be possible so to tell a crap.
Be Careful with the Swiss road traffic authorities, otherwise your card will immediately be declared invalid. In Switzerland it is almost impossible to officially put a Cobra replica on the market. As it is in Italy, I do not know.
I would definitely turn a lawyer and the previous owner to teach him a lesson. Such people cause huge damage.
Good luck and excuse my bad English

[DavideG]

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[cobra]

Dear Davide
The ad was from your previous owner from Canton Graubünden.
Unfortunately, I had not saved it, the price was about sFr. 180'000.00 and he spoke of an original Cobra with a 7 liter engine etc.

[DavideG]

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