Considering a Cobra have some questions

[Detroit Bill]

Do you feel it was s more stable with the Avons?

[Bernica]

Much about this subject on this site.
The BB's have to warm up and loose their flat spots, then they are great. They are bias ply and will hunt on today's highways.
Avons are just a great more modern day tire in 15", and you won't find many that will disagree.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Do you feel it was s more stable with the Avons?

Bill, Avons are the best 15" tire we have, but regardless of the maker of the tires, if you have an FE in your Cobra, and you have a momentary loss of judgment and push the throttle down too far, too quickly, there is a better than even chance your car will be towed home. Hopefully, you'll get to go home with it... and not in a bag.

[Detroit Bill]

Wow Patrick, that's an ominous statement.

I can't easily find specs on the Avons. Can you point me there.

I'm back to thinking about 17 and Pilot sports or P zeros type tire.

[blykins]

Not all cars have that problem.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Wow Patrick, that's an ominous statement.

Bill, Patrick is right for most of these cars. If you'll indulge me for a sec: The first time I took my car (BDR big block 500/500) out to actually drive it I had my youngest son (18 at the time) with me and we were cruising along a fairly quiet country road. We have lots of those around here, long, straight and flat roads. At any rate, whilst cruising we came upon a slow moving semi. I, not thinking, did what I'd normally do in my Saleen; bang a down shift and stomp it! WRONG move oh diseased yak breath! We were doing about 45 when I stomped it and immediately went sideways while crabbing past the semi. I pedaled it, gathered it back up and got around the truck all in about a half a second. My son (not knowing how close to death we both were) was over in the passenger seat laughing his anal orifice off. I had my seat firmly clinched in my anal orifice (we can't use those other words here on CC) and it was some time before I could get out of the car. Needless to say I learned my lesson. The second that you don't respect one of these cars they'll turn around and slap you.

Oh, what tire was I running at the time? Goodyear Eagle F1s in 315/35 17. They never had a chance with my ham-fisted driving that day.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Wow Patrick, that's an ominous statement.

I can't easily find specs on the Avons. Can you point me there.

I'm back to thinking about 17 and Pilot sports or P zeros type tire.

Here's a decent thread on the Avon tires: Info on Avon tires

[Buzz]

My first car was a '74 Trans Am with a built 455 that would break the N50-15 Mickey Thompsons loose at 45mph just as easily. It plowed and understeered like a barge in hard corners but with too much throttle it would snap the rear around in the blink of an eye. I drove it for two winters on the icy roads of northern Alberta. THAT was a scary ride.

Anyone owning a Cobra should do what is often advised - take it and flog it in an empty lot somewhere so you can see how easily it breaks loose and what happens when it does. If your car is well set up, you should find that it is capable of smoking the tires and spinning on a dime all day long, but it will only do that if YOU make it.

It goes without saying that 500+ HP and torque in a small 2500lb car is going to be an E-ticket ride, but it isn't going to go off and create carnage all on it's own. It will if you forget you're not driving a Honda Civic and snap a downshift and stomp on it when you pull out to pass, or even if you decide to goose it hard in any of the first three gears.

If you're used to driving fast in a modern car with traction and stability controls, you definitely need to take a your new Cobra on a crash (no pun ) course in parking lot drifting before you go hunting Vettes on the open road.

[blykins]

That's the best logic.

All cars have gas pedals....it's up to you how far to push it. You can tool around with 750 hp all day long without incident. When you get into the gas, anything over 250 hp is going to net in wheel spin, you just have to know how quick and far to push.

[Detroit Bill]

Funny a great time when I was younger was to take my big block SS Camaro with Pozzi out in a snow filled parking lot (with a pretty girl in the passenger seat) and do donuts. It is a party and teaches you to a degree how to steer out of a spin. I also had a go cart in my much much younger days that you could have an absolute party in the rain with. Spinning and drifting all over the place.

I would like to take my sons out to do some donuts in the snow but unfortunately that is near impossible to do in modern cars. I was thinking of taking him to Skip Barber racing school to help him learn those lessons in a "controlled" environment.

I might mention I did take a 5 day Skip Barber SCCA licence school at Laguna Seca so I get it.

With all that said my thinking is that Billboards look great but I would never drive on Bias Ply tires.
I would not build one of these cars not to drive it. I read up on the Avon's and they sound better but the website talks about and I paraphrase not to sticky for vintage cars". I will have to read into that further.

The Goodyear F1 mention earlier was interesting.

So as a point of interest, lets say you get a nice 650 hp FE under the hood. Are you ever able to go WOT? If so please describe when and the sensation?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

You can tool around with 750 hp all day long without incident. When you get into the gas, anything over 250 hp is going to net in wheel spin, you just have to know how quick and far to push.

All true. But Bill, you have to also keep in mind that all of these cars are essentially "hand built." Some better than others. The short wheelbase makes the radius of the circle smaller, so you come around much quicker. A suspension that is not set up perfectly, corner weights that are off, limited slip packs that don't grab consistently (or no LSD at all) -- these are all issues that can stack up on you. And did you know that some Cobras have "exponential throttle linkage?" Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, once you get used to it. Some cars have bump steer (or even rear wheels that change their orientation under stress). But, you said you wanted something that would be exciting and that wasn't all that hard to "get close to the edge." Well, you can get close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision. Really you should try and visit your local club and see if someone will at least take you for a ride, or even better, let you take one for a gentle spin. They're really a blast to drive... if they don't kill you in the process.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by patrickt

All true. But Bill, you have to also keep in mind that all of these cars are essentially "hand built." Some better than others. The short wheelbase makes the radius of the circle smaller, so you come around much quicker. A suspension that is not set up perfectly, corner weights that are off, limited slip packs that don't grab consistently (or no LSD at all) -- these are all issues that can stack up on you. And did you know that some Cobras have "exponential throttle linkage?" Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, once you get used to it. Some cars have bump steer (or even rear wheels that change their orientation under stress). But, you said you wanted something that would be exciting and that wasn't all that hard to "get close to the edge." Well, you can get close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision. Really you should try and visit your local club and see if someone will at least take you for a ride, or even better, let you take one for a gentle spin. They're really a blast to drive... if they don't kill you in the process.

As this progressed it became apparent to me that getting a ride from a club member would not be a bad idea. I am going to Las Vegas and Utah in Jan Feb so I may make some stops to check things out.

[Buzz]

Patty - if your car gets you close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision, you may want to recheck those corner weights. (And consider adding a couple more roll bars)

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

So as a point of interest, lets say you get a nice 650 hp FE under the hood. Are you ever able to go WOT? If so please describe when and the sensation?

Let Bill Cosby explain it to you here: Bill Cosby Tells A Great Carroll Shelby Story

PS - If he winks at you and offers you a drink, you should politely decline.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Patty - if your car gets you close to the edge just pulling out of your residential subdivision, you may want to recheck those corner weights. (And consider adding a couple more roll bars)

Thank you, Buzz.. Bill, to answer your question, "No, you can never hit WOT in a Cobra on the street with 650HP for any time over an instant."
I have 475 honest, truthful, no BS, no dyno tricks, no fudging the numbers, horsepower at the flywheel. That almost makes me the "weak sister" around these parts. My suspension is as good as it gets, and set up carefully by pros. I have the best you can buy on that car, with the exception of the tires, which are Yokohama, not Avon. I can only hit WOT if I gently roll it on, and then only for a second or two -- not much. Doing that is not safe; not at all. You're an eye blink away from disaster.

Unless you're somebody like Morris (serious big time racing), big HP numbers are just for bragging rights and better smoke outs.

[66gtk]

I'll chime in here a little on this POWER thing. I'm no expert and I don't have a lot of experience, but I have had some practice behind the wheel of 2 well set up ERAs. One with a low riser (actually 390 heads) 427 sideoiler and one with a 390. Both were very fun and sounded great. Gobs of torque and very fun on the street. I felt safe and in control driving both but I know I was only at around 420 HP / 350 HP. Was that enough? Hell yes, it was enough power. I can't imagine needing more unless you are looking to kill yourself on the street or are interested in tracking your car at it's limit. (I agree with the comment about bragging rights) I never got WOT in either of the cars (too scared). I also never pushed them past 4200 RPM. That was enough to feel "on the edge" when on the streets for me. I never lost sight of the advice I received that these cars will try and kill you every time you get behind the wheel.

My late model Shelby has about 500 HP and it's a handful for me on the street. So quick and so fast. I know what the OP means by driving on the edge and being way too out there for speed. Seems nothing fun happens until you are going 100 MPH, and that doesn't take any effort at all! I much prefer driving a Cobra at a much safer speed and feeling the thrill of every shift, grunt of the exhaust, etc. You don't have to be going 100 MPH in a Cobra to get "turned on" like in a late model. To that end, I've convinced myself (even if the logic is faulty) that it's safer to drive a Cobra (over a late model super car) if you are looking for a visceral experience like no other.

[Buzz]

Well said.

[patrickt]

Incidentally, I have been told, by drivers much more gifted than I, that the Avons, while indeed sticking better than the closest competitor, do have one drawback. That drawback is this: When approaching the limit of adhesion, the Avons give you much less warning, and the break is then more "dramatic." Granted, the limit of adhesion is higher than the competition, however, if you do not generally "drive at the limit," and you are one that may benefit from a little notice and feedback from your tires that "hey, this is as about as far as I can go, buddy, or I'm gonna..." -- then you may prefer another tire that, while not sticking quite as well, lets you know when it's time to ease back.

[RodKnock]

What a bunch of wimps. The guy drives a 2012 Porsche 911S. His baseline isn't a Nissan Leaf.

[lippy]

Maybe I'm just stupid and lucky. My car peaks at 637 HP/569 lb-ft, but (HP) at about 6,500 RPM. Lately I've gone out on several test rides to tune my carb with a wideband O2 meter. This entails WOT or close acceleration onto the highway for brief periods, and also WOT/dropping two gears on the highway. Yeah, it's fast. But, knock on wood, it's never gotten squirrely. BTW, I've only gotten on the car with wheels pointed straight ahead. I know the car is putting out power. I had it dyno'd and got about 500 HP at the rear wheels.