Anybody lining up for the new Shelby Cobra?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

"Pat Buckley was the first guy to take one of our machines and make it really nice as a brushed car. It really opened our eyes as to what could be accomplished. He dramatically raised the bar."

Sure did.

We learned a lot from Pat. He is a very talented mechanic.

You have a sweet ride

David

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I'm torn... so thinking out loud.

Even ignoring the price issue...

I'm to believe what I've read, then Shelby (via Joe - Good on him!) are finally trying to "catch up" to Kirkham in terms of what they offer.
Parts of me hope they do.

But no matter what they do (short of buying out Kirkham I guess), they can only ever be a rebadged/branded car of equal, or lesser quality (be it from Kirkham or other). No? Or is this disputable?

Clearly I'm missing something....

Hi Dimis - put these same thoughts into the context of the relationship between AC and Shelby back in the sixties. AC Cobras and Shelby Cobras. Do you think there's a relevant parallel?

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Not so fast.
We haven't heard from NewYorkGuy or Thor_Maine yet.

no, sir, I would not pay $180K for a Kirkham with Shelby badges. but what I would do is buy a used Kirkham and put on fake "50th anniversary Shelby badges & fake CSX vin plate" and tell everybody, "yea, it's a real Shelby continuation 50th anniversary limited model." Hmm, maybe I will do that. wait 10 more years, wait for these new fake Cobras to get old so it would look more real? this crazy cobra hobby is based on perfecting forgery and Shelby Inc. is a customer of Kirkham.

hmm, while I am being honest, I am buying property in china, in a fake manhattan

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZvcQDjj3Qk[/ame]

[Bernica]

Last I heard, Amy Boylan was let go from SAI and is now President at West Coast Customs with Ryan. Bud is also no longer at SAI for a while either. Time moves on and things change.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

no, sir, I would not pay $180K for a Kirkham with Shelby badges. but what I would do is buy a used Kirkham and put on fake "50th anniversary Shelby badges & fake CSX vin plate" and tell everybody, "yea, it's a real Shelby continuation 50th anniversary limited model." Hmm, maybe I will do that. wait 10 more years, wait for these new fake Cobras to get old so it would look more real? this crazy cobra hobby is based on perfecting forgery and Shelby Inc. is a customer of Kirkham.

Just make sure you put an FE in there.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

But, to get back to the original question - I still don't think I've heard anyone say they are putting a down payment down on one of these.

Well, Dan, one has to ask themselves the question, "Am I a Cartier or diamond district type person?"

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well, Dan, one has to ask themselves the question, "Am I a Cartier or diamond district type person?"

Depends if you want FL, VVS1, VVS2 and so on. You may know the difference but trust me, the wife won't.!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I don't mean to be short, but we supply what they order. I really don't know all their future plans.

David

That's OK. I suspect that Shelby probably doesn't want too many details about what they buy from you getting out anyway.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

That's OK. I suspect that Shelby probably doesn't want too many details about what they buy from you getting out anyway.

Actually they are very open about it. Joe has worked very hard to change the culture at Shelby from riding on their laurels to one of constant improvement. I'm sure they are constantly looking for better suppliers. We have to stay on the top of our game with Joe and Keith. They aren't shy about demanding higher quality and better delivery times.

David

[Dimis]

David - thanks for taking the time to post.

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hi Dimis - put these same thoughts into the context of the relationship between AC and Shelby back in the sixties. AC Cobras and Shelby Cobras. Do you think there's a relevant parallel?

Buzz - I'm not sure it matters
But its a fair question that deserves an answer.

For the sake of argument, the AC in-line 6 2Litre engine, was NOT Shelby's "improved" Ford V8 engine, and it was this change in recipe which "we" admire, love and hope to replicate.

There's a line between taking ingredients, mixing them to bake/improve your cake, vs what seemingly is hopping down to the bakery, buying a cake and swapping the wrapping.

Or is that thought out of line?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Depends if you want FL, VVS1, VVS2 and so on. You may know the difference but trust me, the wife won't.!

I don't know what any of that means, since I'm a "diamond district" person as mentioned earlier. But since Rodneym is a Cartier-type person, he would definitely know.

[twobjshelbys]

AC never made a cobra. It was the AC ace. Shelby branded it cobra

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well, Dan, one has to ask themselves the question, "Am I a Cartier or diamond district type person?"

How about Zales?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hi Dimis - put these same thoughts into the context of the relationship between AC and Shelby back in the sixties. AC Cobras and Shelby Cobras. Do you think there's a relevant parallel?

It's a direct parallel.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

It's a direct parallel.

I'm interested how so?
Objectively please, not self-servingly please...

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Buzz - I'm not sure it matters
But its a fair question that deserves an answer.

For the sake of argument, the AC in-line 6 2Litre engine, was NOT Shelby's "improved" Ford V8 engine, and it was this change in recipe which "we" admire, love and hope to replicate.

There's a line between taking ingredients, mixing them to bake/improve your cake, vs what seemingly is hopping down to the bakery, buying a cake and swapping the wrapping.

Or is that thought out of line?

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

AC never made a cobra. It was the AC ace. Shelby branded it cobra

Shelby initiated the Cobra project, but once that was done, AC did very much make a Cobra; and that is what I refer to as opposed to the Ace. There were AC Cobras (COB and COX series) produced and sold that had no Shelby branding and they continued producing them long after Shelby shut down their Cobra operation. Prime example is the AC 289 sports that used a small block in the "old" 427 body style.

My point is that the original Shelby CSX cars enjoy a significant premium price advantage over the basically identical COB cars of the same era because of that Shelby mystique, marketing and overall cachet. Same situation with Shelby and Kirkham today.

One question though, for those in the know (the more -ahem- elderly fellas that is ) - was there a significant retail price premium for the CSX Cobras vs. the COB Cobras back in the day?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Actually they are very open about it. Joe has worked very hard to change the culture at Shelby from riding on their laurels to one of constant improvement. I'm sure they are constantly looking for better suppliers. We have to stay on the top of our game with Joe and Keith. They aren't shy about demanding higher quality and better delivery times.

David

Interesting. In the past, I thought of the Shelby aluminum cars as having a distinction from the Kirkham cars in a number of ways, obviously one of those things is the Shelby brand, but there were other difference too, like the original style suspension, a really nice paint job and some amount of assembly done in Vegas. Now it seems a bit less different than a Kirkham if they arrive in Vegas as Kirkham rollers with Kirkham billet suspension and only need to be painted, add some Shelby badges and weld a plate over the Kirkham number with a CSX number.

Now I can definitely see people asking, why pay so much more than the base price of a Kirkham for a Shelby. But then again, there are a lot of options available from Kirkham and they can add up really fast. The price of a well optioned Kirkham can be significantly higher than the base price. Perhaps we can think of the Shelby product as a well optioned Kirkham with a really nice paint job and the Shelby brand name. And I think we know that Shelby has customer out there willing to pay their price.

[Trueoo7]

"Now I can definitely see people asking, why pay so much more than the base price of a Kirkham for a Shelby. But then again, there are a lot of options available from Kirkham and they can add up really fast. The price of a well optioned Kirkham can be significantly higher than the base price. Perhaps we can think of the Shelby product as a well optioned Kirkham with a really nice paint job and the Shelby brand name. And I think we know that Shelby has customer out there willing to pay their price."

Funny thing is, if this was reversed, it would be considered a knockoff and that would be deceitful and you would be thrown in jail. I guess if you copy something and sell up, then its
OK. It just doesn't seem right, "either way".

[Buzz]

Shelby isn't copying anything. Kirkham supplies them with a roller that they complete and sell as a Shelby Cobra - notwithstanding a few details, much the same as was the arrangement between Shelby and AC back in the 60's.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Shelby initiated the Cobra project, but once that was done, AC did very much make a Cobra; and that is what I refer to as opposed to the Ace. There were AC Cobras (COB and COX series) produced and sold that had no Shelby branding and they continued producing them long after Shelby shut down their Cobra operation. Prime example is the AC 289 sports that used a small block in the "old" 427 body style.

My point is that the original Shelby CSX cars enjoy a significant premium price advantage over the basically identical COB cars of the same era because of that Shelby mystique, marketing and overall cachet. Same situation with Shelby and Kirkham today.

One question though, for those in the know (the more -ahem- elderly fellas that is ) - was there a significant retail price premium for the CSX Cobras vs. the COB Cobras back in the day?

Give that man a cigar. Correcto.