Anybody lining up for the new Shelby Cobra?

[4pipes]

This form of masterbation is always fun but tiring to read. Eventually, you get sore.
Perhaps I'm projecting, but most people that buy anything but an original Cobra manufactured in the 60's, don't consider their purchase an appreciating asset. To assign different values to these non original cars is fruitless, all that matters is when you sell, you find a buyer that loves the car as much as you did. How it looks, drives and sounds becomes more important than marketing scripted provenance.

[maurice19]

Well put, Dave

Maurice

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

This form of masterbation is always fun but tiring to read. Eventually, you get sore.
Perhaps I'm projecting, but most people that buy anything but an original Cobra manufactured in the 60's, don't consider their purchase an appreciating asset. To assign different values to these non original cars is fruitless, all that matters is when you sell, you find a buyer that loves the car as much as you did. How it looks, drives and sounds becomes more important than marketing scripted provenance.

Dave, FWIW, while I didn't buy my Kirkham for an appreciating asset, nevertheless the darn things have appreciated to some degree. A "file finish" Kirkham roller with no options is now $80K. And as but one example, those Shelby alloy blocks are now significantly more to purchase than when I bought mine too.

And other manufacturers have also had some appreciation, including obviously the continuation Shelby Cobras. So speaking for myself, value matters.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Dave, FWIW, while I didn't buy my Kirkham for an appreciating asset, nevertheless the darn things have appreciated to some degree. A "file finish" Kirkham roller with no options is now $80K. And as but one example, those Shelby alloy blocks are now significantly more to purchase than when I bought mine too.

And other manufacturers have also had some appreciation, including obviously the continuation Shelby Cobras. So speaking for myself, value matters.

I couldn't agree more. My CSX 4000 series with all Shelby components including the aluminum engine has only gone up in value in the past 16 years or so...

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I couldn't agree more. My CSX 4000 series with all Shelby components including the aluminum engine has only gone up in value in the past 16 years or so...

has the ceiling been reached for a csx4000 series or a Kirkham?
on ebay, used kirkhams go from $100K to $110K

here is a shelby cobra carbon fiber body csx4072 commissioned by CS and the asking price is $169K.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shelby-Cobra...US_Cars_Trucks

u lucky guys got in early and will make $$$. new cobra guys won't

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I get why there's a premium on a CSX vs a COB car of yesteryear.
However, I can't see how the playing field is remotely the same today.

Shelby developed and improved the recipe via the R&D of their racing arm to suggest there was a value add. THEY pioneered all the "improvements". Yes?

But SHELBY aren't doing that now. That's the other mob! No?
What's shelbys value add now? A signed MSO and paint?
For mine, that is not adding or improving the recipe.
That's where I fail to see the parallel.

Back in the 60s Shelby didn't change the wrapping!
He changed the heart and soul (read: engine and driving sensation).

ALL the R&D (and manufacturing) that improves the recipe today comes from Kirkham. Including the desire to improve the "heart and soul".
ie. Engine part development, suspension development, exhaust development, reducing weight, stiffening the chassis (even developing a billet version), and then trivial things like gauge development, wiring loom development... Blah blah blah...
Actually they've pretty much stollen the formula that made Shelby!


So seemingly there IS some parallel...except it's been turned on its head and Shelby aren't leading the charge. Nor are they manufacturing anything. Today they are just following. No?

The parallel is there just as in the 60's regardless of any modifications in geometry or materials.

In the 60's Shelby improved the AC in various ways in the process of the car morphing into a Cobra. Those improvements carried through production at AC once made and the CSX cars coming in were re-badged, painted and sold.

Same for the earlier CSX Continuatin series except SAI made the changes in the chassis' received.

Later Shelbys see the mods being made by Kirkham deviating from original with billet components etc and Shelby receiving the chassis and rebadging and painting and selling.

As far as leading the "charge" what charge are you referring to? There is only so much you can do with a 50+ year old design. I wouldn't refer to modifications to geometry and materials leading a "charge".

Regardless of who is responsible for the updates in materials or adjustments to geometry the basic formula is still there. Body and Chassis hand built by an outside vendor and Shelby Taking delivery and reselling and up fitting with its materials, gauges and other touches etc....

There are many who want slight improvements in geometry and billet materials etc... There are those who are purists and want it the way "it was". After all when you want to duplicate one of the most iconic cars of all time it is only truly duplicated when the original receipe' is followed in all respects which receipe is set in stone and long ego established. You can't improve the heart and soul of what a Cobra is by deviating from what it was. You may change it and improve it's handling, it's power, its comfort and whatever else you want to your liking but then it moves away from center as to what it is supposed to be historically which is the "way it was" which is what a Cobra is. A "Cobra" has a character based on its original design and performce. That character is purist when the receipe is followed without deviation. You can change things but that changes character to your liking but dilutes the pure character of a "Cobra".

Kapesh?

Personally, I think SAI should not used "improved geometry" or anything visual that deviates from the original design. I think their cars should be kept true to the their Cobra of the past. Only if specified by the customer should SAI deviate.

[Nedsel]

[quote=Dimis;1334261]I get why there's a premium on a CSX vs a COB car of yesteryear. QUOTE]

You do? Great. Please explain it, because I have often wondered about it. AC Cars builds a car minus engine/transmission, and sends it to CA, where they add the aforesaid equipment. Or, AC Cars builds a complete car on one assembly line. Apart from the badges, what's the difference in the cars? Or does anyone think Shelby himself actually did any work on the cars shipped to him?

[4pipes]

Rodknock and Bernica, I'd like to point out a simple fact, your cars will not go up in value until someone pays you more than you paid.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Rodknock and Bernica, I'd like to point out a simple fact, your cars will not go up in value until someone pays you more than you paid.

And for me anyways, that will be when I am long gone and on the other side of the dirt!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Rodknock and Bernica, I'd like to point out a simple fact, your cars will not go up in value until someone pays you more than you paid.

The Cobra is asset with a market value just like other assets, investments or otherwise, in one's portfolio. Values go up or down. As for an accounting entry on one's balance sheet, the Kirkham is represented at book value, which is cost basis just like the houses we may or may not own less any loans outstanding. But my "Mark to Market" schedule reflects the appreciation in the Kirkham.

[4pipes]

It's discounted on mine.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

It's discounted on mine.

Well that's just plain wrong. You have one of the best Cobras on this site. So I say fire your accountant.

[4pipes]

I like spending real money as opposed to virtual money.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

I like spending real money as opposed to virtual money.

What about all that Bitcoin you saved up?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

There are those who are purists and want it the way "it was". After all when you want to duplicate one of the most iconic cars of all time it is only truly duplicated when the original receipe' is followed in all respects which receipe is set in stone and long ego established. You can't improve the heart and soul of what a Cobra is by deviating from what it was. You may change it and improve it's handling, it's power, its comfort and whatever else you want to your liking but then it moves away from center as to what it is supposed to be historically which is the "way it was" which is what a Cobra is. A "Cobra" has a character based on its original design and performce. That character is purist when the receipe is followed without deviation. You can change things but that changes character to your liking but dilutes the pure character of a "Cobra".

Kapesh?

Nope, no Kapesh. The "purity" argument is nonsense to me, because you don't own a 1960's original CSX2000 or 3000. The rest are replicas of the original. And the "purist" who tries to replicate the original with his or her Kirkham, Shelby, ERA, etc. is just exercising their brain cells to stave off dementia.

IMO, there is no reason not to use better suspension, brakes, Tremecs, engines, hose clamps, gauges, wiring, one trunk battery, etc., but admittedly, there are "purists" out there, but to me, that's the "greater fool theory."

Purity? On a CSX4000? Stop, you're killing me.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I also know Joe Conway on a personal basis. He and I think very, very much alike. We have had long talks together. He is a constant improvement guy. It is in his DNA. I can't stress this enough. He is extremely dedicated to improving the Shelby brand and he understands high-quality parts are a bit more expensive. He has never once suggested we cut any corner--anywhere. On the contrary, he always wants to improve. He understands markets, metallurgy, brand, customers, vendors, etc.
David

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Shelby clearly has one of the most successful brands in the world. Even so, Joe has taken a successful brand and made it even better. That is an extraordinary accomplishment. Many, many people are far more adept at destroying well-known brands than improving them. Joe and Keith have a move forward attitude and it is spreading through Shelby quickly.
David

Even the Shelby company today recognizes the brand needs to improve and "purity" of a replica ain't it.

[stephen_becker]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Even the Shelby company today recognizes the brand needs to improve and "purity" of a replica ain't it.

ummmmmmmm - NO

[stephen_becker]

The shelby company today recognizes they need to raise some cold, hard cash using CS name. Period.

[twobjshelbys]

General "Buck" Turgidson:God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids. God bless you all"...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by stephen_becker

The shelby company today recognizes they need to raise some cold, hard cash using CS name. Period.

"Improving the breed" and "raising cold hard cash using the CS name" are not mutually exclusive. With all due respect, I'm not sure your opinion is unbiased here.

But then, neither is mine.