Dan and Daves visit to Alloycars

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

All the pictures that Dave took including this one (at the top of this page) is taken from a FFR MKII & is now Alloycars creation in aluminum. The picture that Maricopa posted below is the Kirkham body that was put on a FFR & if it was about 10 years ago this happened, I'm sure it was also on a FFR MKII frame.

Dan - I realize that. I was reacting to people's blind insistence that it is a Kirkham body when by looking at it its clearly based on an old generation FFR body shape.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

I'm here to only answer questions of those that can read & I'm really getting tired of the members who are out only to create grief, give me a break.
YOU ARE ONLY SEEING WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO SEE and YOU ARE ONLY BELIEVING WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO BELIEVE.

This is an open forum called "Cobra Talk." And I'm very sorry that you think I'm here to "create grief." I can only see what everyone else can see, which is considered light on evidence at this stage. I have no bias other than the fact that I get tired of folks who post "The Truth" on the Internet and provide minimal support to their "cause."

When Alloycars gets a FFR MKIV body and builds a Cobra, which is then sold to an independent 3rd party ("arm's length transaction"), who then provides their independent reviews of the Alloycars product, then I will try to be one of the first people to post a sincere congratulations and welcome to the alloy body club. And hopefully, there will be #2 and #3 and so on.

However, as of right now, I feel a bit like the movie character "Dave Skylark" (actor James Franco) from the movie "The Interview" (or maybe Seth Rogen's character), as he receives various gifts from the person whom he plans to interview, including a cute little puppy.

[mikeinatlanta]

My only suggestion would be to go back to the earlier threads and see the response when I told them their car was a MKII. I told them nicely, and their response is all I need to know about them.

And for the record, they were told they had a MKII long before the show you mentioned, but why let a little truth from the past interfere with the truth of today.

[1985 CCX]

Not adding fuel to this fire.
But.....
After a brief conversation with them it is clear that they are merely making aluminum versions of bodies of any replica. In this case a FFR car.
They said they basically use a buck, the replica body in hand, to make the body so it will fit the car originally as intended.
So if you have a FFR you could buy a body that fit.
If you have a CCX it to would look like a CCX.
ERA and so on.

Their fit in the market is making a body to fit you replica manufacturer.
So if you desire a alloy body, have a frame to hold it they will make it duplicating your original body.

Now as to number made I can't say. Never saw one.

[AL427SBF]

Dan, you gave it your best shot, been there and done that. Many appreciate what you have shared here today, thanks for taking the time.
Buzz, nothing has changed but commend you for trying ... "I did some searching about and there is a lot of positive being said about Ingo Poth and the Porsche replicas. Somehow I don't think that will make any difference to some of you - you've decided it's war and now validation of your position is all that matters."

Alloycars will succeed because the market is there and they have 100% of the in-house capability to do it, and want to do it. They are the only true USA supplier of aluminum cobra replicas, even SAI can't make that claim using Kirkham bodies. Alloycars is a high end coach builder and has been for years. The commentary here will have "0" impact on them moving forward, and they are moving forward in a big way which will become evident soon enough.
.

[twobjshelbys]

I know everyone wants to believe but...

We have yet to hear from a single satisfied customer.

If I were looking in this space I would welcome someone else to go first. We have a report from someone but don't think it was real, yes?

Let me ask it this way. Are there 10 owners willing to turn over cash to get an alloy rebody? 5? 2? 1?

Color me skeptical.

[LMH]

Maybe slightly off the subject but can an aluminum body be made using a donor fiberglass body as a buck? Wouldn't the AL body be too big?
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Dan, you gave it your best shot, been there and done that. Many appreciate what you have shared here today, thanks for taking the time.
Buzz, nothing has changed but commend you for trying ... "I did some searching about and there is a lot of positive being said about Ingo Poth and the Porsche replicas. Somehow I don't think that will make any difference to some of you - you've decided it's war and now validation of your position is all that matters."

Alloycars will succeed because the market is there and they have 100% of the in-house capability to do it, and want to do it. They are the only true USA supplier of aluminum cobra replicas, even SAI can't make that claim using Kirkham bodies. Alloycars is a high end coach builder and has been for years. The commentary here will have "0" impact on them moving forward, and they are moving forward in a big way which will become evident soon enough.
.

The bolded portion of your opinion is the only portion that may be true. The market may be there. I don't know what the market penetration would be for a $20K alloy body for the FFR's (or any fiberglass replica). The whole kit from FFR is $20K. But, hopefully, we'll find out.

Your commentary will have zero impact on them moving forward either. For me, your opinion is pure speculation at this point of a business that doesn't appear to have a customer as of yet. I found some obscure references to a possible customer or two for the Porsche 550 replica product, but it's not 100% clear that there are legitimate customers for these either. If there are customers, then they're unknown at this time. Certainly ZERO on the two Porsche forums that I'm a member of. Of course, PCA wouldn't allow them as a part of their site since you actually have to own an actual production Porsche to be a member.

As for 100% American, were a global economy, I betcha there's something non-USA that will be installed or built on their future Cobra. Personally, made in the USA is just doesn't have the same meaning it once did.

Honestly, for someone who just recently torched the site and one of the moderators, then said goodbye to CC, only to come back, doesn't get much respect in my book. Don't threaten the "nuclear option", unless you actually intend to follow through.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... then said goodbye to CC, only to come back, doesn't get much respect in my book ...

I never said it, please post the link to those words.
What I said was "back with the silent majority", indeed to watch in amusement, but I can come and go as I please. I also mentioned the lack of reading comprehension, you distinguish yourself as one on that list. Please do counter with some nonsensical interpretation of what I've said, getting it right has not been your strong suit but I do enjoy a good laugh now and then.
.

[CobraDan]

I want everyone to not start with doubt just give me the opportunity to tell my story as I have been here a long time & deserve that opportunity. I want not to be attach as was the Alloy team & yes that name calling that occurred should have never happened on any forum and if this thread goes south as the other 2 have, then I have not had my opportunity to try & resolve every issue you have.

[CobraDan]

Originally Posted by LMH

Maybe slightly off the subject but can an aluminum body be made using a donor fiberglass body as a buck? Wouldn't the AL body be too big?
Larry

Answer:

Yes, it will be too big and far off. You can’t use a fiberglass body as a buck. But you can make a heavy buck using the fiberglass body as a reference. The first problems you will encounter are the headlight rings. They will not match the chrome rings from the head lights. Just an example. It will also affect all the gaps and width of the car.

[CobraDan]

I hope I answered Larry's question & like I said just give me the chance. Right now my wife's son is in town & even though my wife thinks I live at CC we are headed out the door & my response time will slow way down until I get back. I can see now how a hot headed German (Ingo) trying to repair the problems that his friend TOM started did not go well. I just want everyone to know that I'm also German & when you guys start on me I have to bite my tongue. I want CC to be a help to all as it was when I signed on in 2001. I have seen this problem going on for a long time here at CC & I want things to change. I have met many people in person on this forum & we have been friends for a long time & I do not have a grievance for many but there are some that just have to snipe away as I have seen comments on other threads that have nothing to say about Alloycars but they have to post a negative post, PLEASE STOP. Ron Barsamian who still works as a lawyer does not have time to monitor every thread & I do not want to have him stop the guys who think every thread is a time to get funny. Again I ask you to PLEASE STOP.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

Answer:

Yes, it will be too big and far off. You can’t use a fiberglass body as a buck. But you can make a heavy buck using the fiberglass body as a reference. The first problems you will encounter are the headlight rings. They will not match the chrome rings from the head lights. Just an example. It will also affect all the gaps and width of the car.

This is somewhat correct. Once again, the answer lies in the old thread where simple truths were dismissed as an attack.

The EASY way to make an alloy body buck would be to take a splash off an existing car and then cast a tool from that splash. You then use the cast tool to stretch form the panels. With stretch forming and assuming an alloy of .050" nominal thickness, your body would be larger by .100" in width at the areas of biggest difference. This does not take into account the high stretch areas such as headlight rings where the material would be thinner, or compressed areas where it would be thicker. When considering the inaccuracies of the FFR MKII body, being off by .100" is nothing, besides, just a slight bit of trimming and things get very close. Any minor issues that crop up, such as the light ring example, can be easily resolved with minimal massaging.

As I already stated on the other thread, the issue with this type of tooling is that it is only suitable for very short production runs and I don't believe for a second that they have invested the $$ necessary for durable tooling. If they had, it would be something any reasonable company would show off rather than hide (think Kirkham).

For those of you who have no sheet metal experience, trust a guy that has 35 years aviation structural experience when I say that there hasn't been a significant development in sheet metal forming since chem milling and hydro forming. Any claims to have some sort of secret new process is pure BS.

So where does that leave us? We have a company that is secretive, deceptive, combative, and is making something that many of us would love to have. I have no issue with them making simple copies of anyone's body, however, like the photos they took, I see a pattern of behavior such that they would never get a penny of mine.

[CobraDan]

Mike,
Again you doubt. I only have a fraction of the pictures that Dave took to my disposal to post but Ingo has a ton of his money in this project & his dies can make cobra bodies for my life time.

Two photos by Dave

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

Mike,
Again you doubt. I only have a fraction of the pictures that Dave took to my disposal to post but Ingo has a ton of his money in this project & his dies can make cobra bodies for my life time.

Two photos by Dave

Yes you are correct. Until I see a photo of metal dies I will have a difficult time believing they exist. Are you saying that you saw metal dies? I have read everyone's posts and have not seen anyone make that claim. Your own statement above says they will last your lifetime, but doesn't say they are metal.

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Pete: ????????????

That is a picture of a train leaving the station...without the late passengers.

With other words the train is gone.


With all the guys who I know, besides the Cobra boys, I know only one who could spring $20K for a re-body.

Fact is, FF5 buyers and builders buy an FF5 because they get a good bang for the buck. If they could spend like they wish, there would be more Kirkhams out there
AND
Shelby American would NOT build fiberglass bodies.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by G-Pete

That is a picture of a train leaving the station...without the late passengers.

With other words the train is gone.


With all the guys who I know, besides the Cobra boys, I know only one who could spring $20K for a re-body.

Fact is, FF5 buyers and builders buy an FF5 because they get a good bang for the buck. If they could spend like they wish, there would be more Kirkhams out there
AND
Shelby American would NOT build fiberglass bodies.
G]

That's quite the assumption. I could have easily had any replica I wanted for the money I have into my FFR.

[AL427SBF]

A comparison of roller costs was made earlier, implying they were equal packages, but no details were given to support that assumption. Here is a breakdown of "what you get", clearly all rollers are not created equal, provided as FYI only.
Untitled Page
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[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

I never said it, please post the link to those words.
What I said was "back with the silent majority", indeed to watch in amusement, but I can come and go as I please. I also mentioned the lack of reading comprehension, you distinguish yourself as one on that list. Please do counter with some nonsensical interpretation of what I've said, getting it right has not been your strong suit but I do enjoy a good laugh now and then.
.

OK, done. Your Post #100 of thread "Alloycars are real":

"It's been an interesting experience, and not without some high points, but no longer an objective place to voice an opinion, so time to move on. For those who have been helpful to me I am indebted and appreciate the info you have shared."

"Go ahead Jamo, spin up some nonsense to save a little face, I'm already gone."



And then this from Jamo, who you insulted (which I won't post) at least twice:

"BTW, second posting by AL427SBF personally coming at me...and still no ban. Go figure."


"Time to move on"? "I'm already gone"? Seriously, how else would anyone interpret these words and actions? Puh-leeze, you "torched the village" and then decided to come back. When you deploy the "nuclear option" and then come back, at least in my book, respect is lost. Not a person of their word(s).

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

A comparison of roller costs was made earlier, implying they were equal packages, but no details were given to support that assumption. Here is a breakdown of "what you get", clearly all rollers are not created equal, provided as FYI only.
Untitled Page
.

Details were given by me based upon what info was available from the Alloycars website. Now, lo and behold, an "Alloycars versus Kirkham" comparison page pops up on the Alloycars website. Wow, well, that's interesting, but certainly leaves a few details out on the specifics that Kirkham gives you for one of their cars.

The market will speak for itself. If Alloycars is going after Kirkham's business, then that's good for competiton, and what America is all about. But Alloycars will have to step up their game, because Kirkham is an engineering-driven company and "the only thing that stays constant is change."