Stephen Becker Automobile group Inc files suit against Shelby American Inc

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Forgive the tangent, but I recently received notice that I was an aggrieved party in a class action suit. All I had to do was take a trip to the courthouse, pay some copying fees, get some documents notarized, and mail it all in to receive my $48 share of a multi-million dollar lawsuit against some deep pocketed corporation. Of course the attorneys representing me and the thousands of other parties were taking the lion's share of the payment. I decided it wasn't worth the effort ..... for me.

Class Action suits serve the primary purpose of providing a strong disincentive to corporations and businesses from taking advantage of the public and in short ripping them off a little at a time which adds up to mis-gotten huge profits for those corporations that do it. A nickel at a time in mis-gotten savings for corporations spread over millions and millions of product add up to huge profits while misleading and ripping off the consumer.

Example: If a jar of product advertises a certain ingredient or includes it on it's nutritional label at a certain quantity or represents that it provides a benefit and it in fact does not provide what it advertised are you going to sue the company for the $2.95 you paid? Likely not. Moreover, what is you loss or what are your damages? You just throw the product out and move on or write a letter to the company which ends up in the circular file.

While I don't do class actions on a regular basis I know attorneys in Manhattan that do. Class actions take up in many cases rooms of documents, thousands of hours and pose the risk of the plaintiff's firm/attorney paying the defendant's counsel fees if they lose. Did you know that?

Class actions serve to disgorge the improper profits gained by the wrongdoer which in many cases to amounts to tens or hundreds of millions. You are notified to get back your portion. If you don't want it, that's fine. Walk away.

Yes, class action lawyers can make a huge amount of money but also put in in many cases hundreds and hundreds of hours, expense and risk of losing and getting hit with fees. Everyone is entitled to a profit. You make a profit on what you do correct? Profit many times is proportional to the effort and risk involved. Risk reward.

The court in class actions also sets the fees.

Would you risk hundreds and hundreds of hours on a contingent basis of success, the risk of you losing and not only losing your expenses, hundreds of hours and then getting hit for the other sides fees without a huge profit potential? No, didn't think so.

Class actions also help ensure you get what you paid for.

Just thought you would like to see the other side to the coin.

Back to the subject.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Forgive the tangent, but I recently received notice that I was an aggrieved party in a class action suit. All I had to do was take a trip to the courthouse, pay some copying fees, get some documents notarized, and mail it all in to receive my $48 share of a multi-million dollar lawsuit against some deep pocketed corporation. Of course the attorneys representing me and the thousands of other parties were taking the lion's share of the payment. I decided it wasn't worth the effort ..... for me.

I was sent a letter saying I was part of the class action lawsuit against Toyota for those pesky cars that accelerated on their own,since at the time,I owned one....
The settlement was supposed to be in the billions!!!!!!!! Got my check in about 6 months ago, all of $27.13!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not that I expected anything from it............

Would you risk hundreds and hundreds of hours on a contingent basis of success, the risk of you losing and not only losing your expenses, hundreds of hours and then getting hit for the other sides fees without a huge profit potential?

That says it all,"without a HUGE profit potential".....

David

[REAL 1]

Yup. Would you take the risk otherwise? LOL

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by gmonsen

I don't follow the stock, but if it went from $1 to $0.18, that doesn't suggest they are doing well.

CSBI has always been what is called a "penny stock". It's more of a novelty than an investment.

[ChiChris]

Bought '427' shares of Shelby stock years ago to match my CSX 427.
Figured the certificate would look good hanging in the garage.
At $.16 a share it cost me about the same as a Shelby metal sign or poster.
It is a novelty..

[slider701]

I would love to know how many times CS (or one of his many companies) have been sued in the last ~20 years. I would bet it was somewhere in the range of 20-30x more than your average small American business enterprise. Carroll might have been an automotive engineering and racing legend but as a business man his legacy was less than stellar.

Unfortunately it seems those following in his footsteps at SAI are continuing on in a similar fashion as his business practices were when he was alive.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Just thought you would like to see the other side to the coin.

I've seen both sides of the coin. The party with money is on one side and the lawyers are on the other. However the coin lands, the winner is not me. That was the point of my previous post and yes, I know how the system works.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Class Action suits serve the primary purpose of providing a strong disincentive to corporations and businesses from taking advantage of the public and in short ripping them off a little at a time which adds up to mis-gotten huge profits for those corporations that do it. A nickel at a time in mis-gotten savings for corporations spread over millions and millions of product add up to huge profits while misleading and ripping off the consumer.

Example: If a jar of product advertises a certain ingredient or includes it on it's nutritional label at a certain quantity or represents that it provides a benefit and it in fact does not provide what it advertised are you going to sue the company for the $2.95 you paid? Likely not. Moreover, what is you loss or what are your damages? You just throw the product out and move on or write a letter to the company which ends up in the circular file.

While I don't do class actions on a regular basis I know attorneys in Manhattan that do. Class actions take up in many cases rooms of documents, thousands of hours and pose the risk of the plaintiff's firm/attorney paying the defendant's counsel fees if they lose. Did you know that?

Class actions serve to disgorge the improper profits gained by the wrongdoer which in many cases to amounts to tens or hundreds of millions. You are notified to get back your portion. If you don't want it, that's fine. Walk away.

Yes, class action lawyers can make a huge amount of money but also put in in many cases hundreds and hundreds of hours, expense and risk of losing and getting hit with fees. Everyone is entitled to a profit. You make a profit on what you do correct? Profit many times is proportional to the effort and risk involved. Risk reward.

The court in class actions also sets the fees.

Would you risk hundreds and hundreds of hours on a contingent basis of success, the risk of you losing and not only losing your expenses, hundreds of hours and then getting hit for the other sides fees without a huge profit potential? No, didn't think so.

Class actions also help ensure you get what you paid for.

Just thought you would like to see the other side to the coin.

Back to the subject.

There's no question attorneys provide some benefit, the question is does it warrant the fees they receive? I've seen business litigation, but more of an impact had my own personal experiences, including in a drawn out real estate transaction where as bills started racking up to a ridiculous level (not even a contingent case), I ended up being the one who had to come up with the ground breaking solution and meet with and negotiate acceptance with the multiple parties. The attorneys for the most part just processed paperwork/forms that once you see it done is not too difficult to duplicate the next time with adaptations. There is a concept in the business world called "value added" and that is where the issue lies. The legal system is also contorted as it is more of a game of who can push the boundaries further and is largely driven by who has the most $ to throw away to achieve their goals by wearing the other side out in to a compromised resolution - whether you are right or wrong is often more of a secondary concern.

[66gtk]

Originally Posted by DMXF

....is largely driven by who has the most $ to throw away to achieve their goals by wearing the other side out in to a compromised resolution - whether you are right or wrong is often more of a secondary concern.

Yes

[bret a ewing]

CS was no Elon Musk.

[Jamo]

Well, lumping attorneys together and giving broad opinions about what they do based on limited experiences is like lumping all doctors together...heart surgeons saving lives and plastic surgeons making bigger boobs.

I personally think that attorneys that bring class action suits against businesses are rotten scoundrels that do not care for the advancement of mankind in the least.

I defend businesses against class actions in labor and employment cases...we, of course, stand for truth, justice and the American way.

Interesting lawsuit here, regardless of whether it turns into a class action or not. Much of it will turn on the original contracts and the course of conduct.

[Bernica]

After spending about $1 million on attorney fees in a dispute once, my opponent and I went to dinner and agreed "enough is enough" and settled the whole matter over a nice steak at Mortons. I can't say that the attorneys were very happy, but we stopped the bleeding and both took our licks and moved on.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bernica

After spending about $1 million on attorney fees in a dispute once, my opponent and I went to dinner and agreed "enough is enough" and settled the whole matter over a nice steak at Mortons. I can't say that the attorneys were very happy, but we stopped the bleeding and both took our licks and moved on.

Dang, I'd have let you settle it without me for half that....

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I've seen both sides of the coin. The party with money is on one side and the lawyers are on the other. However the coin lands, the winner is not me. That was the point of my previous post and yes, I know how the system works.

What did you expect to "win". What were your loses? Did you expect to receive more than you lost?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by DMXF

There's no question attorneys provide some benefit, the question is does it warrant the fees they receive? I've seen business litigation, but more of an impact had my own personal experiences, including in a drawn out real estate transaction where as bills started racking up to a ridiculous level (not even a contingent case), I ended up being the one who had to come up with the ground breaking solution and meet with and negotiate acceptance with the multiple parties. The attorneys for the most part just processed paperwork/forms that once you see it done is not too difficult to duplicate the next time with adaptations. There is a concept in the business world called "value added" and that is where the issue lies. The legal system is also contorted as it is more of a game of who can push the boundaries further and is largely driven by who has the most $ to throw away to achieve their goals by wearing the other side out in to a compromised resolution - whether you are right or wrong is often more of a secondary concern.

Ah yes. Well, that's exactly the point isn't it? Who is driving the bus? Is it the clients who churn the litigation not wanting to compromise and be reasonable or the attorneys? My 30 years experience has shown me it is 90% of the time the clients who only start to become reasonable once they start bleeding too much money in fees. "Value added" has nothing to do with it. If you retain an attorney at an hourly rate that's the deal. If it's a contingency that's the deal. Do you have the other party in your business decide what your "added value" was once the smoke clears at the end. Doubt it.

Both sides are allowed to argue meritorious grounds, however, the Federal system under FRCP 11 and most states have frivolous claims rules and statutes for those that take unreasonable frivolous positions.

It's real simple, you are always free to cut the lawyers out and go pro se. In most cases ,except for very simple matters it does not usually turn out well for the pro se.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Well, lumping attorneys together and giving broad opinions about what they do based on limited experiences is like lumping all doctors together...heart surgeons saving lives and plastic surgeons making bigger boobs.

I personally think that attorneys that bring class action suits against businesses are rotten scoundrels that do not care for the advancement of mankind in the least.

I defend businesses against class actions in labor and employment cases...we, of course, stand for truth, justice and the American way.

Interesting lawsuit here, regardless of whether it turns into a class action or not. Much of it will turn on the original contracts and the course of conduct.

Gee, and here I thought it was the greedy corporations ripping off the public that were the rotten scoundrels that don't give a poop about society and the public only their bottom line. I thought it was the plaintiff's attorneys like me representing the little guy who got screwed that was standing for the truth justice and the American way.

[Bernica]

Start with Shakespeare and Hamlet's speech, Act 5..

[REAL 1]

.....

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Bernica

After spending about $1 million on attorney fees in a dispute once, my opponent and I went to dinner and agreed "enough is enough" and settled the whole matter over a nice steak at Mortons. I can't say that the attorneys were very happy, but we stopped the bleeding and both took our licks and moved on.

See, that's exactly my point. So whose fault was it in driving up fees and costs? Maybe you guys should have gone to dinner sooner.

Next time you want to spend $1 million in fees PLEASE CALL ME FIRST!!!!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

After spending about $1 million on attorney fees in a dispute once, my opponent and I went to dinner and agreed "enough is enough" and settled the whole matter over a nice steak at Mortons. I can't say that the attorneys were very happy, but we stopped the bleeding and both took our licks and moved on.

Are attorneys ever happy?

For me, at least, obviously not the OP, this thread is like "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

I don't think any one cares any more, but of course, the OP and maybe the other CSX dealers, which can't be that many.