What did you expect to "win". What were your loses? Did you expect to receive more than you lost?
OK, this post will wrap it up for me. .... Real1, I didn't criticize anyone in either of my two earlier posts. Neither did I suggest I should get something for nothing. I understand that lawyers are trained to argue, but if you have to argue, please argue with something I said. .... Did I expect to receive more than I lost? No. But neither did I expect to spend as much in time and money as I was to receive in the settlement. Plainly, all I was being asked to do was provide the class action attorneys information that would benefit them while I broke even on the cost of my participation. That was my only point. I'm sorry if it was too subtle for you. I'll try to be more plain next time.
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Practicing law is difficult, challenging not to mention thankless in many cases.
REAL 1, I suspect one of the big contributing factors is legal compensation is so highly concentrated among individual clients. The opposite end of the spectrum where the public tends to more readily accept is when a company makes pennies each off of millions of widgets. Sounds like the best scenario for an attorney looking to maximize revenue with the happiest clients is to perhaps do work for large corporations where hundreds of millions is at stake on an issue, such that the client feels more positive even if they have to pay a couple million out of the coffers? The fees still need to be kept below some reasonable hurdle, but that will certainly be higher than what most individuals or small companies can stomach. Probably hard getting those assignments though...
After spending about $1 million on attorney fees in a dispute once, my opponent and I went to dinner and agreed "enough is enough" and settled the whole matter over a nice steak at Mortons. I can't say that the attorneys were very happy, but we stopped the bleeding and both took our licks and moved on.
There ya go...well done! Unfortunate you had to spend that much to get to that point, but you stopped the bleeding.
The majority of my clients have been with me for over a decade...several for over three decades. Obviously, in labor and employment I have ongoing relationships with these folks (fighting unions, employment litigation). Some are the biggest produce companies in the world, others produce the wine you have with your meals, and still others are mom and pop farms where the owners take care of their business at the kitchen table. The one thing they (and I) do is treat legal services as just another element of getting the job done, and they know to employ legal (anything from union prevention strategies to ensuring compliance with employment laws) to prevent problems like class actions, just like applying pesticides to prevent bugs before they attack.
But...lets get back to the lawsuit and the subject of the thread and what effect it may have on our hobby (if any).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta
Outstanding analogy.
Yup. Zactly. Perfect. That's the main social purpose of class actions. Don't screw the public and do the right thing and no bugs. Simple really.
Take away the prospect of bugs and see what happens. Wanna try that and see how that works out? Even with class action remedies available today there are still more than enough businesses and corps screwing the public and others every day and willing to take the risk. Exhibit A. Take a look at the allegation of the OP. While just an allegation at this juncture what if it's proved to be true?
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Practicing law is difficult, challenging not to mention thankless in many cases.
A few bad apples has made it difficult for the majority.
Agreed - when speaking to people my dear wife was very careful about mentioning one of her brothers was a lawyer, while the other is an auditor for the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA = Canadian equivalent of the IRS).
Now that brother #1 is a judge a greater number of people find that more acceptable than his previous occupation as a lawyer. Go figure.
Obviously, in labor and employment I have ongoing relationships with these folks (fighting unions, employment litigation). Some are the biggest produce companies in the world, others produce the wine you have with your meals, and still others are mom and pop farms where the owners take care of their business at the kitchen table. The one thing they (and I) do is treat legal services as just another element of getting the job done, and they know to employ legal (anything from union prevention strategies to ensuring compliance with employment laws) to prevent problems like class actions, just like applying pesticides to prevent bugs before they attack.
I spent 22+ years working for an IBM subsidiary in the IT services industry. Much of that was involved in putting together and negotiating service agreements with customers, often multi-year outsourcing agreements. I found it advantageous to engage the legal team early in the process, while many of my peers waited as long as they could to bring the legal folks in. Let's just say the former approach worked out much better than the latter.
Agreed - when speaking to people my dear wife was very careful about mentioning one of her brothers was a lawyer, while the other is an auditor for the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA = Canadian equivalent of the IRS).
Now that brother #1 is a judge a greater number of people find that more acceptable than his previous occupation as a lawyer. Go figure.
My No. 1 son is an attorney and partner in a good firm and even he tells lawyer jokes!
Everyone b!tches about lawyers until they need one and then they want a pit bull son-of-a-b1tch!
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I built the (new) UCLA Law Library back in the 90's and saw first hand where they breed the lawyers. A most intense bunch to be sure! As much as I may have disdain for lawyers, I have to respect what they go through on their "paper chase".
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All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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Originally Posted by Bernica
I built the (new) UCLA Law Library back in the 90's and saw first hand where they breed the lawyers. A most intense bunch to be sure! As much as I may have disdain for lawyers, I have to respect what they go through on their "paper chase".
I'll tell you a secret... if you have the knack for it, law school is not that tough. And having the knack doesn't necessarily mean you're a genius, it just means you've got the "touch" for it... like anything else, tap dancing, skeet shooting, bullshi*ting, or seeing advanced math concepts. If you've got the touch, it's a piece of cake, and if you don't, you can generally learn it. And like a lot of things in life, once you've done them you always say it was harder than it really was. But it is definitely not just smarts -- I know a couple of reasonably dumb guys that passed the bar, and I remember a guy that sat next to me in first year law that had an advanced degree in nuclear engineering... and he flunked out.
I'll tell you a secret... if you have the knack for it, law school is not that tough. And having the knack doesn't necessarily mean you're a genius, it just means you've got the "touch" for it... like anything else, tap dancing, skeet shooting, bullshi*ting, or seeing advanced math concepts. If you've got the touch, it's a piece of cake, and if you don't, you can generally learn it. And like a lot of things in life, once you've done them you always say it was harder than it really was. But it is definitely not just smarts -- I know a couple of reasonably dumb guys that passed the bar, and I remember a guy that sat next to me in first year law that had an advanced degree in nuclear engineering... and he flunked out.
Whenever I think of Patrick, I think, Patrick, "here's a dime, call your mother and tell her we have serious doubts about you becoming a lawyer."
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The Dean of my school taught Property Law and was very similar to that. I remember one day a girl had an honest-to-God mental breakdown in class from the Socratic Method and his questioning. It was actually kind of scary to watch. I think she dropped out... no, I think she came back and actually graduated, now that I think about it....
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At UCLA Law, there are actually chain link "cages" in the basement that students rent and lock up as their own and study day and night. Doing construction around them, I have seen my share of meltdowns!
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Originally Posted by rodneym
Maybe Denbeste bought them all
Yep, probably right. Now working there and fixing cars ten hours a day is real work. Just getting paid to think stuff up and then convince people you're right? I don't know....
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But it is definitely not just smarts -- I know a couple of reasonably dumb guys that passed the bar, and I remember a guy that sat next to me in first year law that had an advanced degree in nuclear engineering... and he flunked out.
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