Documenting my Cobra search

[GT11]

There is actually a second car search going on right now. My wife's BMW has hit our mileage limit so it is time to replace it. She wants a convertible this time too and has developed a short list to drive. We plan buy this fall. The list is:

4 Series BMW convertible
Mercedes SLK
Mercedes E-Type convertible

I will provide some feedback on that search as we start driving cars.

[GT11]

DWRAT, I haven't driven the 1 series but did drive a 335 for a while and the M5....those will scare you! I bet the 135 is a kick...I would bet you are in the low 4's for a 0 - 60 time?!

[GT11]

I am watching several cars and will have pricing feed back on roughly 10 cars shortly. Here are a few:

SPF #205, 1998 mfg date, 351 stroked to 427, 10,300 miles, red - Hi Bid $45,100, asking $55K, did not sell
SPF, # 287, 2000 mfg date, 427FE, 3500 miles, blue w/ white stripes, Sold at $45K
SPF, #1782, 5.8L, 1808 miles, Burgandy w/silver, Bid $48,100, ask $64,900, did not sell
SPF, #423, 390 FE, 20,000 miles on chassis, 9000 miles on engine, Black with silver, Ask $36,500, No bids, did not sell
Backdraft Venom, says it was part of Backdraft at one time, 302, BMW suspension, silver, built in 2004, 5400 miles, Sold at $34K

Several newer cars listed in the 50K's & 60K's range, no bids on these. Since that is out of my used price range, I am not tracking those.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by GT11

I am watching several cars and will have pricing feed back on roughly 10 cars shortly. Here are two:

SPF #205, 1998 mfg date, 351 stroked to 427 - Hi Bid $45,100, asking $55K, did not sell
SPF, # 287, 2000 mfg date, 427FE, Sold at $45K

Miles would be a good additional piece of information.

[GT11]

Detroit Bill, I updated post #23 to include the miles, added another few.

[sea2jet]

These replicas never seem to do well at auction. I would never choose that venue if I was to consider selling mine.

[patrickt]

Why not buy this one: ERA 427 Cobra, Royal Blue, For Sale It doesn't have the outboard braked rear, and I can't tell whether it has 5 pins or 6, but at under 4,000 miles $75k looks reasonable to me. Very nice looking car.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by GT11

Several newer cars listed in the 50K's & 60K's range, no bids on these. Since that is out of my used price range, I am not tracking those.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Why not buy this one: ERA 427 Cobra, Royal Blue, For Sale It doesn't have the outboard braked rear, and I can't tell whether it has 5 pins or 6, but at under 4,000 miles $75k looks reasonable to me. Very nice looking car.

Patrick- you're normally sharp... Are you getting enough sleep...?
While that is a nice ERA, the answer to your question lies above.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by GT11

Several newer cars listed in the 50K's & 60K's range, no bids on these. Since that is out of my used price range, I am not tracking those.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Why not buy this one: ERA 427 Cobra, Royal Blue, For Sale It doesn't have the outboard braked rear, and I can't tell whether it has 5 pins or 6, but at under 4,000 miles $75k looks reasonable to me. Very nice looking car.

Patrick- you're normally sharp... Are you getting enough sleep...?
While that is a nice ERA, the answer to your question lies above.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Patrick- you're normally sharp... Are you getting enough sleep...?
While that is a nice ERA, the answer to your question lies above.

Hmmm, that might have slipped by me....

[GT11]

Patrickt, I can't see paying much over $40K for a used car. I can have a new BDR with a 427 built for me for $60k and if I dropped the engine in myself I am a little under that.

That is why I have kept my used price down to low 40's. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a Cobra but $75K buys a super nice XKE, 911 and a few others on the list. Plus it is easy to pay full price for a car. What fun is that? Part of the fun of this is to find a bargain!!! The internet makes that much harder today though.

[madmaxx]

One thing most fail to realize is you only have to sell your car to one person, not everyone. I have sold 4 SPF cobras all for cash and all for more than $60k. If you see a SPF with a 427 for less than $50k let me know and I will give you a $1500 finder fee.

The cars that are for sale over a long period of time is usually because people do not know how to market or sell them. I would venture to say a car on Cobra Country will fetch $7-9K more than the identical car on eBay. Ebay pics suk, and in the Cobra world that is how they are sold is through pictures.

Auction are as bad a gambling, one dummy pays $$$$ for a POS and another pays $$ for a Kirkham.

My advice is find one with good to perfect paint. that is the most expensive component to remedy. A cobra is one of the few cars where t he individual parts cost less than the sum. They are painfully simple POS cars. They are delicate, they vibrate loose. It is simple economics price and demand.

[66gtk]

I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate you sharing the specifics of your search with us all. It takes effort, no doubt. I suspect that you will have an extremely difficult time finding a NICE quality Cobra for $40K or less that you will be happy with. They are out there, but they are getting much harder to find and your wait will likely be lengthy and tiresome. Prices have gone up sharply for used Cobras in the last few years; at least for the nicer builds. If you want a BDR, you will find one in your price range. If you want an ERA or SPF you will have to expect to pay considerably more. You aren't comparing apples to apples with your new BDR vs used SPF search. On the short side you will be putting up more money (doesn't sound like that's the issue for you), but on the medium to long range end you will lose MORE money by not buying the car you really want/deserve the first time.

In regards to mileage and such, I've found that mileage is only a single factor in comparing and evaluating used Cobras. Many are out there with super low miles. Fewer have been properly maintained, cared for and stored correctly considering their age (not just miles). I've seen many Cobras with less than 5K miles that look to be in similar condition than my MN driven 2005 F150 daily driver. Conversely, I had a nearly 20K mile mid 90's built ERA that still looked and performed as nearly new. When I was selling it, many dismissed it immediately based on miles compared to what else was available on the market. I actually saw it as a plus when I learned of it's true condition.

[Large Arbor]

I am not sure I agree here that "a cobra is once of the few cras where t he individual parts cost less than the sum." You could not build my ERA today for $75k and I do not have that much in it. I also do not agree that they are POS cars. I do agree they are temperamental and require treatment.

Phil
Phil

[madmaxx]

Case in point there is an SPF on eBay right now with Roush 402 for $55k. If I sold that car I would get $62K within 3 weeks. I would detail, take the correct photo's and list on Cobra country. Instead this guy will deal with bottom feeders until exhausted which is when I will step in and offer him $50K cash which will be $10K more than what anybody else offered him on flea bay. I bought one on eBay once for $45K, put about $3K into the chrome, side pipes and polishing the wheels and sold for $64k in 4 days.

[Large Arbor]

Ok, I get now what you are saying and agree on that. I shopped Cobra Country for some time. I think as people move away from originality it hurts pricing as well. SPFs, ERAs, and Kirkhams, all seem to hold pricing well.

They do seem to move around in value, but getting ERA's in the low $50's seem to be bargains if they are in decent shape.

Paint - While expensive, would not be the most expensive item on mine. The engine would win that category

Yes, I also agree they are flippable with some cleanup. Most folks don't realize what they have and what it takes to replace it.

Phil

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

I think as people move away from originality it hurts pricing as well. SPFs, ERAs, and Kirkhams, all seem to hold pricing well.

They do seem to move around in value, but getting ERA's in the low $50's seem to be bargains if they are in decent shape.

Well, I somehow missed his price cap post. But, regardless, what I really don't like is that the "quality Cobra replica" hobby is fast becoming only a rich man's game. I still think of my car as just one step above the Datsun 2000 Roadster I had in high school, and later sold for the "killer" prices of $2500, even though it was held together with duct tape and coat hanger wire. I believe the Cobra replica game is just a rat rod type of hobby, and I don't like seeing used replicas, regardless of the manufacturer, all start nudging that six figure mark. I think it hurts everybody.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

Paint - While expensive, would not be the most expensive item on mine. The engine would win that category
Phil

Agreed, Phil. Most who are new to the search for a Cobra do not realize the importance of an "accurate" engine.

GT11, in that respect I would suggest that you add an issue to your "must have" list...the engine really SHOULD be an FE. As you well know, there were two different body styles (not counting the Daytona Cobras.....have you considered one of those?), the "289" body style and the "427" body style. From the items in which you have expressed interest, it appears you are in the market for one of the 427 body style replicas.

So...and this is coming from someone with a 427 body that has a small block in it...if you want to be able to sell at some point (and, having gone through 50 cars in your life, IMHO that possibility is pretty high), you will have MUCH better luck not only getting the car sold but also getting the $$ you want for it if it is equipped with an FE engine.

I bought mine with a small block because I was not interested in brute force and originality as much as drivability, reliability, and handling. I am happy with all of those issues in what I have; what I am NOT happy with is the body style. I've always been a fan of the "289 FIA" model and if I were going to build one for myself I'd definitely go for that.

There are those on this forum for whom only an FE engine is acceptable. Perhaps they are just purists, or perhaps they know that having an FE engine in a 427 body style exponentially increases the chances of getting their asking price.

You seem like a "well-seasoned", performance oriented buyer with a good grasp on what you want. I ask this with all sincerity...have you driven a Cobra much? I'll never forget the first time mine swapped ends on me...it was totally unexpected and resulted in the need for a new rear bumper. They do not drive like any performance car I have ever owned; perhaps after you've driven one (you said you had seat time in the plans) you'll have a better idea about what it is you want.

At any rate...IMHO...the 427 body style seems to be the most popular and if you have an FE engine in that body style the "originality" aspect adds to the chances you can sell at your asking price when (not "IF", as you even admit to having gone through 50 cars so far) you want to sell it.

Just beware that the 427, while a "thin-wall casting" engine, is physically large, heavy (which makes for a front-heavy car when you put one into a lightweight, short wheelbase car like the Cobra, with predictable effects on handling), and rather finicky about maintenance (they seem to leak a LOT of oil) and rebuilds (getting the valve-train right seems particularly problematic)...but it's the ticket to getting a good price when you want to sell.

Great thread! It's all about the due-diligence...although with you I get the idea that it's not ALL about that, it's equally about getting a good deal.

Wishing you the best of luck...will be following this thread to see how it works out for you!

Cheers!

Dugly

[Large Arbor]

Patrick,

I cannot say I disagree with you on that point. I just dropped over $300 for a starter. Its like Ford parts vs Chevy, Fords seem much more expensive. I never had a Nissan but drove my brothers 69 427 Vette and it did not ride as nice as my ERA. $5200 for a outboard brake rearend is also not inexpensive nor is any aluminum block engine.

It is a little bit of a double edged sword though in that it keeps the values of our cars up. I however likely could not afford to build new of what I have now as the price would push close to $80k or more. The only think cheap I have found yet that works great is the Turtle Wax spray on bug and tar remover!

Phil

[madmaxx]

As far as the Cobra resale market I only deal with SPF and random BDR's. Bottom line is it is a dieing hobby. Every SPF I sold was to a 65 plus years old male. I see a real glut hitting over the Cobra market in the next 2-5 years. Bottom line is Cobra owners are getting old and dieing. I had a conversation with the receptionist at Hillbanks a while back. I asked where they get their consignments from and she said alot are from widows. Truth be known I told my wife if I ever died and their was a Cobra in the garage to call Hillbanks and let them handle the sale.

Look at Mecum auctions. The majority of the audience are overweight 65 plus year old men and many with walkers. If you are under 50 years old (like me) you are into electronics, tuning and today technologies. The reason I stuck with Cobras is I can easily fix them myself.

To be honest the next Cobra I buy is mine. It will be a Kirkham, I kick myself for not buying one last year as it was everything I wanted for $105K. Today $105K is alot less to me than last year..... than again I am a year older.

I love SPF's because like Rolex they do a fantastic job advertising. A first time buyer is getting a known brand with a great reputation. I agree do not compare a $65K new BDR to a New SPF. Two different cars each worth what they cost. SPF are built like tanks, no rattles, no panel rubs, all components designed for SPF not hijacked off a BMW. Exact replica dashboard. I am not saying a BDR isnt a great car I am saying a SPF is worth $10-15K more and they retain their values better.