Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Cobras are art, especially a polished Kirkham Cobra.

However, this is not about history, since these cars are being completed in Year 2015. These Shelby Cobras are about M-O-N-E-Y. Nothing more, nothing less. What "this" is about is MARKETING, persuading some very wealthy men and women to part with ALOT of money for another "special edition" (Evan, I won't use that word in this response) with some OEM parts, some reproduction parts and a GREAT BUNCH of present-day parts. And they can't be driven, which to me, is a fatal flaw. The bottom line is that the marque continues to be watered down with anniversary models, special editions, etc.

I doubt (but don't know) the buyers will ever drive them. I think they are art. Art simply for art's sake. Keep in mind Bill has an entire warehouse of cars full to the brim that he doesn't drive. He has so many he built racks to stack them up with a forklift. He looks at them. That's what he likes to do. These buyers have a different perspective than many of us.

Bill owns 30 or 40 of our cars. Even if he drives like Ben Hurr he can only drive two at once. During the day he will burn out a couple of times in a Cobra and then drive his truck home. If you met him you'd think he's just a normal guy--because he is. He just happens to be a keen businessman that serves a difficult niche in California.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Cobras are art, especially a polished Kirkham Cobra.

However, this is not about history, since these cars are being completed in Year 2015. These Shelby Cobras are about M-O-N-E-Y. Nothing more, nothing less. What "this" is about is MARKETING, persuading some very wealthy men and women to part with ALOT of money for another "special edition" (Evan, I won't use that word in this response) with some OEM parts, some reproduction parts and a GREAT BUNCH of present-day parts. And they can't be driven, which to me, is a fatal flaw. The bottom line is that the marque continues to be watered down with anniversary models, special editions, etc.

I disagree, because of the simple fact it uses all ORIGINAL parts, Kirkhams, New Shelbys and old, like David said, are not as original as these, David I'm surprised you don't get one, they are very cool...

[LMH]

They can't use all original parts as they don't exist. Chassis, suspension, steering, bodies and so on are all going to be reproduced.
Larry

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I disagree, because of the simple fact it uses all ORIGINAL parts, Kirkhams, New Shelbys and old, like David said, are not as original as these, David I'm surprised you don't get one, they are very cool...

No it doesn't use all original parts. That's simply NOT true.

1. The chassis is a modern chassis and not built in 1965.
2. The body is an aluminum Kirkham body, which are thicker than original. And I'm not sure if the bodies are made the same way as they did in 1965.
3. Not the original roll bar, but same size.
4. Not the iron medium riser heads, but new Shelby heads.
5. Reproduction suspension, brake rotors and reproduction Girling brake calipers.
6. No magnesium Halibrands.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but chassis and body are the big ones.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by LMH

They can't use all original parts as they don't exist. Chassis, suspension, steering, bodies and so on are all going to be reproduced.
Larry

oh, then I hate it...

[LMH]

LOL!
Larry

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by lmh

lol!
Larry

lol....

[Phill Pollard]

Originally Posted by Bernica

So then how do I buy a Superformance, Kirkham or whatever today as a roller and have it registered? People do it all the time.
In CA, we have the SB100 exclusion from all those pesky regulations.
I must be missing something. I get it if you have to buy the car turn-key which would kill the registration (at least in CA) but why not as a roller?

You answered your own question;

Because it is a ROLLER. A chassis and body with suspension and no "Power Train". Hence, a "Kit Car". It would have to be completed by the buyer, not the manufacture of the roller chassis.

The law allows an individual to build a certain number of "Kit Cars" per year. I believe CA allows you 3 (IIRC, it could be 1 <?shrug?>).

If Shelby completes the car it is a VEHICLE, not a ROLLER. It would need to meet all emission and safety standards for the year it was produced (i.e. COMPLETED).

Apples and Oranges...


Phill

[REAL 1]

As David said DeBeneste is a very savvy business man. If this were about history they would build one of these cars 100% correct in every nut and bolt as they were brand new as delivered by Shelby from the LA Airport and put it in the museum for the preservation of history.

Are all the proceeds of these "completion" cars going to the construction of the museum and acquisition of whatever they are acquiring for it???? Don't know. Are any part of the funds going to "profits" into "pockets"? Don't know.

The point is these cars are not true completion cars and should not have CSX3000 vin#. Period. They are not CSX3000 cars. Period. Regardless of how beautiful or breathtaking they may be. A well turned out Continuation Cobra with all the right major bits to the eye is just as breathtaking to the observer.

Are the buyers of these completion cars going to hoard them and keep them to themselves or share them with others to see? If they are keep in private collections no one will ever see how is that furthering the preservation of history? History has to be remembered to be preserved.

As to the "originals" being the true preservationists of history, that is not 100%true. History to be preserved must be remembered first. The replica industry and the replicas of today help preserved and preserve history by keeping a car over 50 years old in the public conscience and minds. A run of the mill 1972 Toyota perfectly preserved is part of "history" too but who cares? That and many other cars have faded from "history" so to speak.

The second generation Shelbys are part of Shelby history now. Their importance in the future is still undetermined.

History is made every day its just that some of it turns out to be more important to people than others.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Also, as I read this press release, these cars are not being sold through Shelby American but through the Carroll Shelby Trust. Remember the press release mentions that proceeds will go towards the museum in Gardena and not to the Shelby American stock value...

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I disagree, because of the simple fact it uses all ORIGINAL parts, Kirkhams, New Shelbys and old, like David said, are not as original as these, David I'm surprised you don't get one, they are very cool...

I'd rather spend my money on a new Integrex...like the one we just bought. As much as I love these cars, my heart is actually in manufacturing. I just love to make cool things. Go back and read my posts...carefully.

David

[Bernica]

I imagine the next edition of the Cobra Registry will contain a special section detailing the story of these cars and how they came into existence.

[mullen2]

Looks like the new Competition Shelby is Blue with White stripes. Glad to see the cars still being built. In reality, it is actually pretty cool that 50 years on you can still place a order for a brand new Shelby Cobra. Im sure in 40 years the cars will have their place in history. At that point most of us will not be around to care or will be to old for it to matter. Life is short, buy what you like and drive it often!

There will always be a pecking order as far as Value/Desirability for CSX Shelby Cobras. Starting with 1960's cobras that retain the most of their born with parts and original body/chassis. Then maybe the CSX1000 AC built body/chassis cars, then Aluminum CSX4000 cars, then......

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

As David said DeBeneste is a very savvy business man. If this were about history they would build one of these cars 100% correct in every nut and bolt as they were brand new as delivered by Shelby from the LA Airport and put it in the museum for the preservation of history.

The problem is the nuts and bolts are BSW. Building a car with the correct BSW bolts would probably add $100,000 to the cost.

Are all the proceeds of these "completion" cars going to the construction of the museum and acquisition of whatever they are acquiring for it???? Don't know. Are any part of the funds going to "profits" into "pockets"? Don't know.

First, I don't know. I'm not in their books. But from what I can tell there isn't going to be a whole lot of profit in this for anyone. The money is probably mostly going to the museum. Bill is facilitating it all to help the Shelby brand. Sure he will probably be paid (he should be) but if he wanted to make $$$ he'd just make another business deal. Bill loves the Shelby brand and is one of the only guys who really got along well with Carroll on a personal level. I think Bill has the largest collection of Shelbys in the world--so this ENTIRE project isn't really that much money to him--(If not the largest collection, then certainly one of the largest. He has rows and rows and rows of Shelbys stacked up in his warehouse. It is an awesome sight to behold).

We charged a lot of money to put their parts together--because it is EXTREMELY expensive to build one of these. There just isn't a pot of gold in it for anyone. It took us a year to build the car. Compare that to the normal 4 weeks it takes us to build one and you can see I'd rather build one of our own rides for Shelby.

The point is these cars are not true completion cars and should not have CSX3000 vin#. Period. They are not CSX3000 cars. Period. Regardless of how beautiful or breathtaking they may be. A well turned out Continuation Cobra with all the right major bits to the eye is just as breathtaking to the observer.

I think Shelby can call them anything they want--CSX1000-2000-3000-4000...why not?

Are the buyers of these completion cars going to hoard them and keep them to themselves or share them with others to see? If they are keep in private collections no one will ever see how is that furthering the preservation of history? History has to be remembered to be preserved.

I think customers can do anything they want with their own cars. Why not?

As to the "originals" being the true preservationists of history, that is not 100%true. History to be preserved must be remembered first. The replica industry and the replicas of today help preserved and preserve history by keeping a car over 50 years old in the public conscience and minds. A run of the mill 1972 Toyota perfectly preserved is part of "history" too but who cares? That and many other cars have faded from "history" so to speak.

The second generation Shelbys are part of Shelby history now. Their importance in the future is still undetermined.

History is made every day its just that some of it turns out to be more important to people than others.

These are great questions/comments (ones that I'd expect of my own lawyer).

David

[thorconstr]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I'd rather spend my money on a new Integrex...like the one we just bought. As much as I love these cars, my heart is actually in manufacturing. I just love to make cool things. Go back and read my posts...carefully.

David

You do make some very cool stuff!

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Many of us have art in our homes. What use is that? Who cares about a rock someone chiseled on or a canvas someone threw some paint against? Many do. Art is beautiful on its own.

David

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I doubt (but don't know) the buyers will ever drive them. I think they are art. Art simply for art's sake....These buyers have a different perspective than many of us.

Agreed.

There is always something "unique" about an original piece of art that either cannot be replicated or escapes detection. As an example, I was fortunate enough to be able to spend some time within 3' of Van Gogh's "Starry Night", arguably his most famous painting. It has been one of my favorites for most of my life and despite believing that I was very knowlegable about that painting, I found two issues with which I was not familiar.

1. There is a small part of the canvas, roughly ciruclar and smaller than a dime, where there is no paint.

2. That bright yellow "ring" around the moon...unlike all the other strokes on the painting, those rings are heavily impastoed (if that's a verb, which I doubt). That 3-dimensional aspect is totally invisible in a 2 dimensional "replica", no matter how good the replication. It actually looks like the paint was laid on the canvas from a syringe or tube (like toothpaste) and then separated into segments and "ribbed", looks like someone scraped them with a hair pick (one of those old things used for the "afro" hair style).

I have never seen a "replica" of that painting that included those two details.

So...just as with any piece of "art" (as we all believe the Cobra is!!!), there are minute details that may escape detection when the piece is replicated. Does that diminish the pleasure of the "normal" viewer (one who does not require that each and every detail be replicated perfectly for the piece to be a source of pleasure)...most certainly not, I can assure you from personal experience. Do those minute details make the original UNIQUE in some manner that might make it worth a higher price if offered for sale alongside a number of "replications"? Of course....IMHO.

I could understand how those who own those originals created in the 1960's could feel that even a spot-on replication would fall short of their originals in desirability. Why is that? Well, think of how much effort is required to keep any vehicle in show-quality shape...that, alone, separates those originals from the later replications...all those years of loving care, dedicated to the belief that the best Cobra can be only an original (and, we know that's not true because of the advancements in handling and reliability that may of the replicas offer) will matter to those owners...

Many items are replicated...oriental art.....civil war weapons and "buttons"...but the ones that are most valuable are always the ones created "in antiquity". For Cobra lovers, that period of "...antiquity" can only be the years during the 1960s when Shelby was taking a car without a motor and making it into a terror (which, BTW, was NOT the first time that was done...as has been asserted)....Cadillac motors, which were renowned at the time for their power:weight ratio, were installed in "Allard" vehicles. IIRC they were popular in hill-climbing events...it's probably where Shelby got the idea, as you can read here: Allard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cheers!

Dugly

[Three Peaks]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I'd rather spend my money on a new Integrex...like the one we just bought. As much as I love these cars, my heart is actually in manufacturing. I just love to make cool things. Go back and read my posts...carefully.

David

David,
I do envy you the great toys you get to play with every day. My driving passion behind building a "scratch built" cobra was for the fun of the build and to be as close to an original as I could afford. If I had the machinery you have available I would be like a kid in toyland.
If I lived closer I'd offer to give you a hand getting past your backlog just to work on these cars. Looks like I may be off work for a while here and I would have the time.

Bob

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mullen2

There will always be a pecking order as far as Value/Desirability for CSX Shelby Cobras. Starting with 1960's cobras that retain the most of their born with parts and original body/chassis. Then maybe the CSX1000 AC built body/chassis cars, then Aluminum CSX4000 cars, then......

The CSX4000's must be split into subcategories.

There are your standard CSX4000's, like Evan's, but then there's also the 40th Anniversary Shelby Cobras, 50th Anniversary Shelby Cobras, and don't forget the Terlingua Racing Team Edition Shelby Cobras...There may be other limited and special editions, but history changes everyday. Some stuff we care about, other stuff, we don't.

I think instead of calling them "competiton chassis" Shelby Cobras, since SAI is bringing back the CSX 3000 numbers, SAAC should call them the "Resurrection" Shelby Cobras.

[RodKnock]

Evan: "Are all the proceeds of these "completion" cars going to the construction of the museum and acquisition of whatever they are acquiring for it???? Don't know. Are any part of the funds going to "profits" into "pockets"? Don't know."

David: "First, I don't know. I'm not in their books. But from what I can tell there isn't going to be a whole lot of profit in this for anyone. The money is probably mostly going to the museum."


Fact: Around May 4, 2015, CSBI's stock price was $0.15/share. The press release date was May 12, 2015.

Today, the "Ask" is $0.20/share. If my math is correct, then that's a 33% increase in shares of CSBI. As we all know, stocks rise on the expectation and realization of increased earnings.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Evan: "Are all the proceeds of these "completion" cars going to the construction of the museum and acquisition of whatever they are acquiring for it???? Don't know. Are any part of the funds going to "profits" into "pockets"? Don't know."

David: "First, I don't know. I'm not in their books. But from what I can tell there isn't going to be a whole lot of profit in this for anyone. The money is probably mostly going to the museum."


Fact: Around May 4, 2015, CSBI's stock price was $0.15/share. The press release date was May 12, 2015.

Today, the "Ask" is $0.20/share. If my math is correct, then that's a 33% increase in shares of CSBI. As we all know, stocks rise on the expectation and realization of increased earnings.

That doesn't mean those who are expecting increased earnings know anything.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Al G

That doesn't mean those who are expecting increased earnings know anything.

Well, if "they" still own the stock (CSBI), then they definitely don't know anything.

And if you believe the recent stock price increase isn't tied to the announcement of the "Resurrection" Cobras, then I have a bridge to sell you. As I mentioned above, earnings realized drives stock prices. Only time will tell.

CSBI must continue to make money to keep the stock price afloat and keep CSBI a "going concern." So I'd expect more limited and special editions.