Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Story time

Mike did a fabulous job of reverse engineering most of the parts at that time for the project. I remember walking through row after row after row of parts he made and stored above his paint booth in Torrance. I was gathering up parts to restore original Cobras to pay my way through college.

As you see, I already knew Mike from original restorations I had done. So, I asked Mike to loan me one of those chassis to reverse engineer so I could make an entire car...Mike didn't know I had already started in Poland at the time. We kept that secret for a long time.

Mike said sure and so I asked him to send the chassis up to us in Utah. He said he didn't want to sent the chassis commercial freight because the chassis is/was extremely fragile (true enough).

So, right then and there, I jumped in my truck and drove down to LA. I picked up the chassis and drove it back to Utah. Upon arrival I put it on a truck and air freighted it to Poland to reverse engineer. It was an enormous risk, but I wasn't going to be deterred

I think I remember reading an article 15 years ago or so, that stated that you copied the frame of your street car, csx3106 or something like that. So it was really McClusky's frame. You sly dog you. Are you and McClusky still friends?

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I really don't think these MSO's from Shelby were "auto-penned" after Carroll died. Mike (and Bill) told me these were signed by Carroll a long, long time ago.

David

Yeah, I would have thought he would have done(signed) all the MSO's when these cars were originally announced 20 years ago.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well, if "they" still own the stock (CSBI), then they definitely don't know anything.

And if you believe the recent stock price increase isn't tied to the announcement of the "Resurrection" Cobras, then I have a bridge to sell you. As I mentioned above, earnings realized drives stock prices. Only time will tell.

CSBI must continue to make money to keep the stock price afloat and keep CSBI a "going concern." So I'd expect more limited and special editions.

There must be a conspiracy, eh?

Well, CSBI is so thinly and infrequently traded with a 52 week range of .05 to .25 that no trend can be inferred. In fact, the last time it traded above .19 was on 14-Oct at .20...

I own some, and it's worth more printed on certificates since the artwork is quite nice.

[REAL 1]

If SAI stockholders don't know anything how is it that the stock rise is tied to the announcement of the "completion series"?

You can break the continuation series down into other categories also. You have early continuation cars of both aluminum and fiberglass produced in Las Vegas when Carroll was still alive. Then you have cars built outside of Las Vegas and then cars built after Carroll Shelby died.

How the pecking order will end up will be anybody's guess. I could make an argument that early continuation series Cobras coming straight from Shelby in Las Vegas with a lot of correct details from the factory such as Girling style brakes, suspension etc. would be considered high in the pecking order also. But who knows.

Point of this thread is that while Shelby Aimerican can refer to the new car as the completion series these cars are NOT Completion cars and they can't change the facts no matter how many original parts they use if it's not cobra with an original chassis built circa 1965.

Shelby can call thier cars whatever they want but one thing not even they can do is go back in history and change it.

I am also waiting for photographs of this first completion car. I'm sure after such an extended laborious build and effort to document all the original parts there must be an extensive photograph portfolio of the vehicle. I would like to see photographs of the engine compartment detailed photographs interior, trunk, underneath, all the nitty-gritty details etc.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I think I remember reading an article 15 years ago or so, that stated that you copied the frame of your street car, csx3106 or something like that. So it was really McClusky's frame. You sly dog you.

I had measurements from a few cars. Mostly, CSX3104, CSX3107, CSX2281 and CSX2434 (and others). I used Mike's chassis to confirm the measurements. Many of the measurements had quite a bit of variation in them. Also, Mike's chassis was a copy of an S/C and I didn't have those subtle variations so I needed that chassis as well.

Are you and McClusky still friends?

Oh yes. I talk to him all the time.

Yeah, I would have thought he would have done(signed) all the MSO's when these cars were originally announced 20 years ago.

It's not hard to sign MSO's. I do think they were actually signed by Carroll. I just don't think Joe would use an autopen. It isn't his style.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

There must be a conspiracy, eh?

Well, CSBI is so thinly and infrequently traded with a 52 week range of .05 to .25 that no trend can be inferred. In fact, the last time it traded above .19 was on 14-Oct at .20...

I own some, and it's worth more printed on certificates since the artwork is quite nice.

I never said there was a "trend." Nor did I say there was a "conspiracy."

What I did say is that stock prices are driven by the expectation AND realization of earnings. The stock has risen 33% in the last two weeks. My point here is that stockholders are expecting good news about future earnings. Now CSBI will have to deliver profits on their operations in order to keep the stock price where it is and grow it, if possible.

Now I'm not sure if we'll ever know how much profit, if any, is derived from the 43 potential "Resurrection" Cobras.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Shelby can call thier cars whatever they want but one thing not even they can do is go back in history and change it.

Indeed. I really don't think Joe is in the business of embellishing history. He has no reason to. He was an extremely successful CEO on his own. He isn't interested in snake oil...he simply wants to build the Shelby brand by delivering nice product to their customers.

David

[REAL 1]

David let's see the pictures of the car. engine compartment and Interior, underneath, trunk.. etc. all the nitty-gritty details.

Also, I would think there would be a master list of all NOS parts and components used on the car. Can this be posted so we can review it?

Thanks

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

How the pecking order will end up will be anybody's guess. I could make an argument that early continuation series Cobras coming straight from Shelby in Las Vegas with a lot of correct details from the factory such as Girling style brakes, suspension etc. would be considered high in the pecking order also. But who knows.

Point of this thread is that while Shelby Aimerican can refer to the new car as the completion series these cars are NOT Completion cars and they can't change the facts no matter how many original parts they use if it's not cobra with an original chassis built circa 1965.

I think your early CSX4000 is high in the pecking order for sure. Certainly higher than the later cars (4000's and 6000's) IMO. However, I would think the AC CSX1000's and these "Resurrection" Cobras will be higher than the early CSX4000's, for the simple reason their frame and body, plus the various OEM and repro bits, would/will make them even more accurate and more valuable than early CSX4000's. Additionally, by virtue of giving them the designation of CSX3000's, that also will bring a higher value. And I also think anything put together by the Kirkhams will be unmatched in quality. Period.

That's my initial read based upon limited info. However, I do agree with you that a CSX3000 designation is wrong. How about CSX3000.v2?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

David let's see the pictures of the car. engine compartment and Interior, underneath, trunk.. etc. all the nitty-gritty details.

Also, I would think there would be a master list of all NOS parts and components used on the car. Can this be posted so we can review it?

Thanks

I have looked all over for the photos and I can't find them. I may not have taken any (which would surprise me but we have been delivering rides like mad lately and that may have gotten forgotten in the shuffle). The project was pretty quite for a long time, as Bill wasn't saying anything. The press release was a surprise to me as we only recently delivered it to Bill. He must have gotten right on it to have finished it and painted it. (That's how Bill works).

I don't know who bought it. Whoever did may have very well had Bill change some things.

EDIT!

I just got off the phone with the guys at DenBeste and they confirmed we did NOT make the car in the press release. The car we made hasn't been painted yet.

David

[rodneym]

Folks,
The crowd was too much for me to endure at the Shelby show. But a local paper has a small article online with pics of the new Completion/Competition Cobra. Looks purdy.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/lifestyle...ure-car-museum

Make sure to hit all the links.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

David let's see the pictures of the car. engine compartment and Interior, underneath, trunk.. etc. all the nitty-gritty details.

Also, I would think there would be a master list of all NOS parts and components used on the car. Can this be posted so we can review it?

Thanks

When is the 5th Edition of the SAAC World Registry due to be published? I hope someone will be capturing these details for the next edition.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

David let's see the pictures of the car. engine compartment and Interior, underneath, trunk.. etc. all the nitty-gritty details.

Also, I would think there would be a master list of all NOS parts and components used on the car. Can this be posted so we can review it?

Thanks

Master list? It is just a large hoard of parts. In reality, I don't have time to make a list. It would take me days which I simply don't have.

When Bill asked me to start the project I flew out to Bill's place and started boxing things up. There were only 1 or 2 of some things and then...well...they'll all be gone. That "master list" will be different for each build. The hoard will dwindle, but at the same time I'm sure there will be more and more parts reproduced to original spec. Each final spec will depend, I imagine, on how much the customer wants to spend on details.

Details can be extraordinarily expensive. I have heard of judges pulling dipsticks and checking date codes at Cobra concours events.

Does the customer want to pay someone to go around and find original dip sticks??? Maybe so. My guess is it's all up to the buyer.

David

[rodneym]

David,
Why do some Cobras have the rollbar support on the rear bulkhead (like our KMPs and CSXs), and other don't (including some CSX Continuations and even the Completion Cobra).
Did some have them and others not?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by rodneym

David,
Why do some Cobras have the rollbar support on the rear bulkhead (like our KMPs and CSXs), and other don't (including some CSX Continuations and even the Completion Cobra).
Did some have them and others not?

Originally the cars had a bracket/support which was a small length of 1 1/2 ID tubing with a 90 degree piece of steel (really angle iron) welded to it. This bracket bolted through the rear bulkhead to the 3/4" square tube which is visible in the trunk. The roll bar slides through this bracket when you put the roll bar in.

Why some cars don't have it I have no idea. It needs to be there to support the roll bar from collapsing in a roll over.

David

[rodneym]

Thanks, David.

BTW, there's a link to the Completion Cobra pics from the Shelby show, 5 posts up...^^^

[David Kirkham]

Great link! Like I said...I have been too busy to even follow what happened after it left here.

Not my favorite color of blue...but it is Guardsman Blue. It is what they were back in the day and I do like the color for that reason. Mike always cheats the color a bit and makes it a bit more blue and less green. He does fabulous work.

David

[Al G]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Folks,
The crowd was too much for me to endure at the Shelby show. But a local paper has a small article online with pics of the new Completion/Competition Cobra. Looks purdy.

Iconic racer, car designer Carroll Shelby commemorated at Carson site of future car museum

Make sure to hit all the links.

I wonder who provided the information for the photo captions. They refer to the cars as the remaining original chassis cars started in 1965. I think it has been established that is not the case.

[fordracing65]

The car in the pictures has a different stance than most, it looks raised in the front and very low in back, maybe it's just the picture,

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

The car in the pictures has a different stance than most, it looks raised in the front and very low in back, maybe it's just the picture,

That's actually the original stance. We tweak our rake because I think it looks better with the front lower and the rear a bit higher.

David

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

That's actually the original stance. We tweak our rake because I think it looks better with the front lower and the rear a bit higher.

David

Thanks, looks great either way...what stance, rake, is best for street performance, is it the way you set up the Kirkham's...