Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[fordracing65]

Yes, but American Pickers offers a lot less for parts...

[REAL 1]

David's description was somewhat ambiguous. A "mountain" of parts means different things to different people. He clearly said some parts they used were original some repro. I think it was conceded there is not enough for 47 cars.

You would think with such parts they would have been neatly organized and inventoried.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Evan, are you looking for a particular OEM part for 4206? David K. has seen the treasure trove so it exists. I'm not quite sure why the OEM parts stash is important. It's like someone changed the channel to American Pickers or something.

No. Already found what I need. The stash is important because they made it a central issue to these cars.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You would think with such parts they would have been neatly organized and inventoried.

Get real. Shelby was a farmer, that means he was a hoarder. My grandfather threw the baling wire we took off the hay we fed to the cows and threw it on the pile for enough years that eventually the wire on the top was offset by the rusted melted wire on the bottom. And he NEVER EVER THREW ANYTHING AWAY. Shelby's main warehouse was a disaster area, I can imagine that the other ones truly looked like the barns and sheds from the pickers show.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by patty442

I knew Ned when he lived in NJ and wanted Geoff Howard to repaint the engine block in one of his early SC's wthout taking the engine out from the chassis. Remember that Ned ? continued

Yes, Bob, of course I do. Back then, we used Rustoleum from a can, remember?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

David's description was somewhat ambiguous. A "mountain" of parts means different things to different people. He clearly said some parts they used were original some repro. I think it was conceded there is not enough for 47 cars.

You would think with such parts they would have been neatly organized and inventoried.

I know there are parts hoarders out there and it wouldn't surprise me that some have stacks upon stacks of OEM parts hiding all over the place. There's a person on the Porsche forum with a warehouse full of parts for the 1990's 964's and 993's. He's posted pics of the warehouse, but he's definitely not a "I could tell ya, but I'd have to kill ya" kind person.

Heck I wouldn't mind having a nice OEM Cammer just because and I know there are some fellas with several of them. And I don't think any of these parts hoarders have fancy inventory control systems.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Get real. Shelby was a farmer, that means he was a hoarder. My grandfather threw the baling wire we took off the hay we fed to the cows and threw it on the pile for enough years that eventually the wire on the top was offset by the rusted melted wire on the bottom. And he NEVER EVER THREW ANYTHING AWAY. Shelby's main warehouse was a disaster area, I can imagine that the other ones truly looked like the barns and sheds from the pickers show.

Shelby was a farmer. True, however, he was also a very astute businessman. However, I am not suggesting that Shelby organized any "stash" he may have had in an inventory fashion.

It is my understanding that DenBeste and the other "principals" of this new project have possession of the "stash" either physically or constructively. To the best of my knowledge I do not believe DenBeste is an unsophisticated "hayseed" just having come in from mowing the north forty. Neither are his partners in this "project" to my knowledge.

Call me silly or crazy but I would think there would be an organization and inventory of this "stash" they are using to construct $500,000.00 vehicles.

Maybe its juts me.

Maybe "Bob" can shed some light on this "stash" if he ever comes back.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I know there are parts hoarders out there and it wouldn't surprise me that some have stacks upon stacks of OEM parts hiding all over the place. There's a person on the Porsche forum with a warehouse full of parts for the 1990's 964's and 993's. He's posted pics of the warehouse, but he's definitely not a "I could tell ya, but I'd have to kill ya" kind person.

Heck I wouldn't mind having a nice OEM Cammer just because and I know there are some fellas with several of them. And I don't think any of these parts hoarders have fancy inventory control systems.

When I was a kid in the early '70s I worked for a guy that was a Ford fanatic. When Ford decided to pull their Muscle Parts program he went friggin' crazy and dragged me to dealerships with a big truck, sometimes late at night.

It was like a frenzy of guys cutting deals with dealerships and cleaning out the stock as fast as they could. I personally helped him load up two Boss 429's and two Cammers, all still on the factory pallets. I remember stacking cams still in the cardboard tubes like firewood. Tunnel Port heads, manifolds 427 S/O blocks, you name it. We Built racks at his shop and stacked everything up. It looked like a parts store when we were done.

I remember him telling me "Bernica, this sh*t is going to be worth a fortune some day".

That was in the Pacific Northwest, outside of Seattle.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Shelby was a farmer. True, however, he was also a very astute businessman. However, I am not suggesting that Shelby organized any "stash" he may have had in an inventory fashion.

It is my understanding that DenBeste and the other "principals" of this new project have possession of the "stash" either physically or constructively. To the best of my knowledge I do not believe DenBeste is an unsophisticated "hayseed" just having come in from mowing the north forty. Neither are his partners in this "project" to my knowledge.

Call me silly or crazy but I would think there would be an organization and inventory of this "stash" they are using to construct $500,000.00 vehicles.

Maybe its juts me.

Maybe "Bob" can shed some light on this "stash" if he ever comes back.

Yep, I think it's just you . So now you are allowing as how the parts exist, but you're insisting that they come here and disclose exactly what they have? What would entitle you or anyone to that information except the buyer of the vehicle?

They already told me they don't have enough parts to finish all cars exactly the same. Earlier ones will have more, later ones less. I think David said the same thing.

It seems that the vehicles are likely built to an order, so a "speculation" car seems unlikely. Should they build one I would agree that info should be part of the info in the For Sale package.

If you want to know write a check for 500K and get the build sheet for your car.

P.S. I can guarantee Shelby didn't know what he had. A friend of mine was responsible for building an inventory of his personal belongings and was working on it when I saw the material in the main facility in Gardena. There was stuff there that they just shook their heads at. A 60's something Lincoln that noone knew why it was there (they thought maybe CS stored it for someone and never got it back. It may have had a sentimental (to CS) but he never told anyone. CS's own Cobra was being worked on in a shop that was messier than mine. On the other hand, Cleo's side was spic-n-span

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

If you want to know write a check for 500K and get the build sheet for your car.

15,000+ views and 24+ pages of mostly drivel, and out of the mystery and mayhem comes one sentence that pretty much nails it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ACademic

15,000+ views and 24+ pages of mostly drivel, and out of the mystery and mayhem comes one sentence that pretty much nails it.

For a replica?

I have a difficult time believing that the owner(s) of said vehicles will get a "build sheet." I just don't see anyone, with the possible exception of an employee of Kirkham, doing an well-organized and accurate accounting on what is being installed. We're not talking about an auditor from Price Waterhouse sitting along side the installer "ticking off" work papers as each nut and bolt is installed.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For a replica?

I have a difficult time believing that the owner(s) of said vehicles will get a "build sheet." I just don't see anyone, with the possible exception of an employee of Kirkham, doing an well-organized and accurate accounting on what is being installed. We're not talking about an auditor from Price Waterhouse sitting along side the installer "ticking off" work papers as each nut and bolt is installed.

I was told that there will be one. Call Denbeste if you don't believe me. You see, that seems to be the thing noone else here (I count 20 odd participants) has done. Of course, you might find real answers and why would anyone want that to get in the way of spreading obfuscation and doubt.

And there are two sources for the vehicles.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I was told that there will be one. Call Denbeste if you don't believe me. You see, that seems to be the thing noone else here (I count 20 odd participants) has done. Of course, you might find real answers and why would anyone want that to get in the way of spreading obfuscation and doubt.

And there are two sources for the vehicles.

I'm "spreading" my own disbelief and doubt. I sincerely doubt that there will be a truly "accurate accounting" because I don't think anyone truly knows what "accurate accounting" means, at least in the real world. And maybe that first Resurrection Cobra will have an "accurate accounting", maybe, just maybe, but I can't wait for #40 or whatever, if they get that far.

I don't need to phone anyone to waste their time and mine. You can keep telling us to call Denbeste, but I really don't care enough about a $500,000 replica to listen to someone or anyone BS me over the phone.

And you can continue to try and spread the "gospel" yourself, but just because you spoke to someone and just because you know important people as it relates to the Shelby OEM parts extravaganza really doesn't impress me at all. Really it doesn't. Not the least bit.

And I'll quote Jamo:

Originally Posted by Jamo

If you have information to share...share with sufficient identification for folks to be able to weigh it...rather than tell folks to look elsewhere.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And you can continue to try and spread the "gospel" yourself, but just because you spoke to someone and just because you know important people as it relates to the Shelby OEM parts extravaganza really doesn't impress me at all. Really it doesn't. Not the least bit.

And I'll quote Jamo:

I could care less if it impresses you. My info is directly from Denbeste, one degree removed from the source. I took careful notes. Yet it seems you choose to not believe it. So if you don't believe what I have passed along, then I suggest you verify it on your own with a simple phone call. It might be interesting to see if you get the same answers twice. But as I spoke to the production manager I don't suspect you'd get different answers. And, trust me, they won't come here. So if Jamo insists on "first party" info, the discussion had just as well end here and now.

[fordracing65]

Anyway, is this not how Shelby history goes, build a bunch of stuff make up a bunch of stories, sell to the highest bidder...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I could care less if it impresses you. My info is directly from Denbeste, one degree removed from the source. I took careful notes. Yet it seems you choose to not believe it. So if you don't believe what I have passed along, then I suggest you verify it on your own with a simple phone call. It might be interesting to see if you get the same answers twice. But as I spoke to the production manager I don't suspect you'd get different answers. And, trust me, they won't come here. So if Jamo insists on "first party" info, the discussion had just as well end here and now.

Words are just that, words. Whether they come from the original source, a secondary source or you. Post the build sheets and let us examine them. With Porsche, Pontiac, Mopar, etc, they have a service where as an owner, you can access them. For Porsche at least, you can post them publicly on the Porsche forum for everyone to see. The written word is more important. Telephone conversations, not so much.

[feadam]

David
You said these are using cast iron center sections, are they from Larry Millers collection. A few years ago I went to the Shelby museum in Boulder Co and they had a pallet full of them. Asked if I could buy one and they told me a lot of the collectable parts are Millers.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yep, I think it's just you . So now you are allowing as how the parts exist, but you're insisting that they come here and disclose exactly what they have? What would entitle you or anyone to that information except the buyer of the vehicle?

They already told me they don't have enough parts to finish all cars exactly the same. Earlier ones will have more, later ones less. I think David said the same thing.

It seems that the vehicles are likely built to an order, so a "speculation" car seems unlikely. Should they build one I would agree that info should be part of the info in the For Sale package.

If you want to know write a check for 500K and get the build sheet for your car.

P.S. I can guarantee Shelby didn't know what he had. A friend of mine was responsible for building an inventory of his personal belongings and was working on it when I saw the material in the main facility in Gardena. There was stuff there that they just shook their heads at. A 60's something Lincoln that noone knew why it was there (they thought maybe CS stored it for someone and never got it back. It may have had a sentimental (to CS) but he never told anyone. CS's own Cobra was being worked on in a shop that was messier than mine. On the other hand, Cleo's side was spic-n-span

I never said there wasn't a stash of stuff that Shelby had. One of my issues with this project was whether they have done a master inventory from which build parts are drawn and whether the master inventory is certified by someone who is recognized in the industry as being original NOS parts.

It matters not a wit to me whether they do this or not. Moreover, this is not super secret stuff. We are not dealing with "trade secrets". A lot of people know what original parts a Cobra had. Why not pubish the list of their inventory from which these "CSX 3000's" are being built with and the particulars of their stash and who has certified to the genuineness of the parts? They are after all asking for 1/2 a million for each aren't they? That's a lot of hay.

Further, I would never pay $500,000.00 for a Continuation Cobra (which is what it really is) at this time merely because it is stuffed with a lot of NOS parts. The rolling chassis is $160K. Show me the value of the rest of the build in NOS or original parts putting it $250,000.00 above the best Continuation Shelby. I don't think they can because the real money on these cars is based on the canard and apocryphal fact that they belong to and are part of the CSX 3000 series as I understand what they are doing here. If I am wrong please enlighten us. I believe these cars will be scoffed at by owners of originals and continuation series alike as purporting to be something they are definitely not part of. I think they will not be well received by SAAC. Who knows how the next Registry will deal with these cars. This is my opinion of course.

Moreover, I may not even be able to drive the damn things.

My Shelby has plenty of NOS and original parts and it is not purporting to be anything other than what it is, a Continuation Shelby. Moreover, there are some NOS parts I'd rather not have. Why have a cast iron diff when you can have a nearly identical diff that is aluminum alloy and lighter and just as strong? Why would anyone want original Lucas wiring?!!!! OMG I like my electrics to work. Thanks. My nuts and bolts are fine. I don't need original nuts and bolts. Why do I need a copper radiator when an Aluminum Fluidyne is much lighter and cools just as well if not better. Again, the early Shelby Aluminum Continuation Cobras had a lot of the stuff on David's list.

Now give me an original chassis that was never used with an original CSX 3000 stamping on it and I'll be willing to spend $500,000.00 for that car even with repro parts built to original spec.

Finally, I think you are selling Ol' Shel short. I think he was a lot smarter and knew more than you are giving him credit for.

[slider701]

If you get 10-15 people with $500k each I'm sure you could convince David to "mass produce" 15 billet Cobras.........truly a Cobra that is worth $500k

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yep P.S. I can guarantee Shelby didn't know what he had. A friend of mine was responsible for building an inventory of his personal belongings and was working on it when I saw the material in the main facility in Gardena. There was stuff there that they just shook their heads at. A 60's something Lincoln that noone knew why it was there (they thought maybe CS stored it for someone and never got it back. It may have had a sentimental (to CS) but he never told anyone. CS's own Cobra was being worked on in a shop that was messier than mine. On the other hand, Cleo's side was spic-n-span

The Lincoln was likely a 67 convert. It was allegedly the "last' Lincoln convertible produced and was part of the settlement for Ford's purchase of the "Cobra" name. A Lincoln convert and one dollar, US, American greenback currency bought the trademark.