Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[fordracing65]

Wow, the HOLY GRAIL, very cool David, what an experience for sure, the find is almost as fun and the car itself.. I agree, the old car would be a thrill to have drive smell talk about on and on....

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Woah. This is better than any of us could have imagined. I heard of Bill's 'accumulation' but I didn't know that it went that far.

David,
Any more info on your billet Girlings? I remember seeing pics a while ago but I can't remember details. Will they be for sale?

$5,000 for the set of 4. They are raced on all over the world. Lead time is a few weeks. We have made a bunch of them.

David

[NewYorkGuy]

thanks David

now we need Joe Conway to fill in details

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

thanks David

now we need Joe Conway to fill in details

Joe is a great guy. We have a lot in common.

I'd love for him to pop in. No doubt he could fill in details (and correct anything I've messed up )

David

[fordracing65]

David, do you have any pics of the car you could share...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Alright, I'll go out on a limb here. If you don't want the real deal built in the '60's, for what ever reasons, the next best thing would be one that looked exactly the same and was dimensionally perfect.

This would provide you with a perfect replica that you could drive everywhere and not be concerned with damage, theft, or accumulated miles.

If that were the case, why wouldn't you want all the parts to have benefitted from 50 years of learning in casting, forging, metallurgy, switch craft, manufacturing processes?

IOW, why would you want all that old unreliable crap!

I happen to agree. I read the list of parts including the original side oiler, Lucas switches, Smiths gauges, etc. and thought "meh." But that's me.

The only issue with this "perfect replica" is that you cannot drive it on a public road. To me, for the amount of money a person will spend on this car, and can only be operated on a race track, I can think of a very long list of track cars that I'd rather have and be much safer in while on a track. And then get to drive it to my local oyster bar.

What is an interesting question to me is how these cars will fit on the replica hierarchy. Personally, if I were picking a CSX to buy, I'd probably pick one those fourteen-ish CSX1000's, if I had to have a CSX, which in reality, I could care less about.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

David, do you have any pics of the car you could share...

I was looking for them today and couldn't find them. I'll look around.

David

[REAL 1]

Very nice project. However I have issues and concerns. There are pros and cons.

Pros:
1. CSX3000 vin # from SAI
2. A lot of original NOS equipment and details that's hard to find today.
3. Original power from a real 1965 NASCAR 427SO.
4. Limited number.

Cons:
1. Not able to drive on the street. Closed course only as I understand. Also I would never drive this car on a closed course for multiple reasons.
2. Not a 1965 Chassis. Merely a continuation chassis stamped with a CSX3000 vin. The original "Completion" series cars were supposed to be the original unused 1965 chassis used to complete the homologation run of the original comp cars to 100 in number. It was established such chassis do not exist and CS got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. These are not true "completion cars" anyway you slice it. Putting original NOS parts on them and an original NASCAR 427SO does not change that.
3. These cars are really Continuation Chassis Shelby's completed to a very high level of original detail. What you are paying for is the hard to find NOS parts and the CSX3000 vin on a new chassis.
4. Very high buy in price. My bet will be at least $250,000.00 for the chassis with the CSX3000 stamping and another $100,000.00 to finish with original 427SO and NOS parts. This for a car you can't drive? Its a high priced statute.

Would I pay a lot of extra money for a CSX3000 vin on an original chassis? You bet. Would I pay a lot of extra money for a CSX3000 vin stamped on my chassis? No.

Finishing a Shelby Continuation series to near original specs is expensive and time consuming. Very true. Mine is finished to such a very high level of detail and has the bulk of what's on the list for the CSX3000 series so I know. But there are more details than what's on that list which I have and are not on the list.

That's my take.

[Bernica]

I guess I'm a little confused as to why you couldn't get the car registered for street use. I understand that as a turn-key, at least here in CA you wouldn't be able to. But wouldn't there be a way around that by having the car completed as a roller, then buying and having the engine installed separately?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Very nice project. However I have issues and concerns. There are pros and cons.

Pros:
1. CSX3000 vin # from SAI
2. A lot of original NOS equipment and details that's hard to find today.
3. Original power from a real 1965 NASCAR 427SO.
4. Limited number.

Cons:
1. Not able to drive on the street. Closed course only as I understand. Also I would never drive this car on a closed course for multiple reasons.
2. Not a 1965 Chassis. Merely a continuation chassis stamped with a CSX3000 vin. The original "Completion" series cars were supposed to be the original unused 1965 chassis used to complete the homologation run of the original comp cars to 100 in number. It was established such chassis do not exist and CS got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. These are not true "completion cars" anyway you slice it. Putting original NOS parts on them and an original NASCAR 427SO does not change that.

I don't think original cars had NASCAR 427's in them. I may be wrong here as just about anything is possible with the originals. The NASCAR crank is a BEAST. The Navy could use them for battleship anchors.

3. These cars are really Continuation Chassis Shelby's completed to a very high level of original detail. What you are paying for is the hard to find NOS parts and the CSX3000 vin on a new chassis.
4. Very high buy in price. My bet will be at least $250,000.00 for the chassis with the CSX3000 stamping and another $100,000.00 to finish with original 427SO and NOS parts. This for a car you can't drive? Its a high priced statute.

I imagine they will be much, much more than that.

Would I pay a lot of extra money for a CSX3000 vin on an original chassis? You bet. Would I pay a lot of extra money for a CSX3000 vin stamped on my chassis? No.

Finishing a Shelby Continuation series to near original specs is expensive and time consuming. Very true. Mine is finished to such a very high level of detail and has the bulk of what's on the list for the CSX3000 series so I know. But there are more details than what's on that list which I have and are not on the list.

I very much doubt your car (or anyone else's made after the original run in the 60's) is finished to the level of detail of these cars. The parts simply don't exist. The list I gave is extremely shortened and doesn't reflect 1/100th of the unreal parts we put in the car. (For example, the car included original Ford--in the box--shift ring, buttons, boot, original Lucas rheostat for dimming the dash lights, original Lucas tie rod ends (I have never seen those), original Ford coil bracket, original Ford fuel filter mount, original Ford solenoid, original Lucas rear view mirror (I haven't seen one of those in years and years), original in the box Girling master cylinders, original suspension rod end boots (most people don't even know about these), original brake line clips, original plastic wiring harness clamps, original grommets!!!, original Girling brake line nuts, on and on and on. I just don't have time to list everything. Like I said, Smaug would be jealous.

My comments certainly aren't a knock on your car or anyone else's. Keep in mind, many ORIGINAL cars are not finished to this level of detail, as they have been modified over the years with replacement parts.

That's my take.

Many of us have art in our homes. What use is that? Who cares about a rock someone chiseled on or a canvas someone threw some paint against? Many do. Art is beautiful on its own.

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I guess I'm a little confused as to why you couldn't get the car registered for street use. I understand that as a turn-key, at least here in CA you wouldn't be able to. But wouldn't there be a way around that by having the car completed as a roller, then buying and having the engine installed separately?

I don't know anything about this. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

David

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Many of us have art in our homes. What use is that? Who cares about a rock someone chiseled on or a canvas someone threw some paint against? Many do. Art is beautiful on its own.

David

To each his own. My Continuation Series CSX 4206 is just as beautiful and a work of art for likely 1/2 the price and is what it purports to be and I can drive it too !

[4pipes]

Will they be delivered with genuine Girling master and slave cylinder rebuild kits? Most of us that owned period English cars know how often they were needed.

[Bernica]

So, did you also discover tool kits and Shelly jacks in the stash?

[twobjshelbys]

Why can't it be driven on the street: The act of building the vehicle and installing a power train makes one a manufacturer (and to add complexity, Shelby is a manufacturer already). A newly "manufactured" vehicle has to meet the year of MANUFACTURE safety standards - so think air bags, bumpers, stability control electronics, EPA mileage, and all the rest (think Series 1). The way Cobra replicas exist in the wild is building a replica (cake mix) and adding the power train (egg) yourself. Mostly due to CA regs, even Shelby American DEALERS cannot install the power train, and the old way of having a separate entity but owned by the same people (e.g., holding company owning both sales dealership and speed shop to do engine install, even if they aren't fully dedicated to Cobras) are not allowed. CA checks now... Additionally, most owners (and dealers) would not want to make a car that couldn't be sold in CA since it reduces your TAM alot.

This is it in a nutshell, but David can probably make additions.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Bernica

So, did you also discover tool kits and Shelby jacks in the stash?

Yes. He had parts I had only glimpsed at. Maybe one day we will make those jacks too.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Many of us have art in our homes. What use is that? Who cares about a rock someone chiseled on or a canvas someone threw some paint against? Many do. Art is beautiful on its own.

David

That's going to have to be one heck of a picture hangar to get that Cobra to hang on a wall.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

To each his own. My Continuation Series CSX 4206 is just as beautiful and a work of art for likely 1/2 the price and is what it purports to be and I can drive it too !

To each his own--that is the motto of our hobby and what makes it so great.

I have customers who have our cars in glass cases--fully running and driving rides--in a glass case. Some guys just like to look at them because they are beautiful. One customer has one in aluminum, one in copper, and one bronze. He then bought a Coupe and had us do bronze accents. Our bronze rides are drop dead gorgeous.

I got your message on "kit cars" in my signature line. I keep it there because of search engines.

Thanks for the kind words!

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That's going to have to be one heck of a picture hangar to get that Cobra to hang on a wall.

Barber Museum has one of our cars hanging from the ceiling.

David

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I guess I'm a little confused as to why you couldn't get the car registered for street use. I understand that as a turn-key, at least here in CA you wouldn't be able to. But wouldn't there be a way around that by having the car completed as a roller, then buying and having the engine installed separately?

The car will probably come with a Bill of Sale, like most race cars do but not an MSO. Different states will do it differently but in AZ without the MSO, it would be registered as a 2015. It would have to pass 2015 emissions standards and all that BS that goes along with it. Not sure that engine could pass those standards.
Larry